hardner question

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hardner question

Post by wayne57 on September 24th 2012, 8:08 pm

Did my 51 chevy in black satin rolled on 6
coats, gonna spray the last four.
My question is should i use hardner when i spray
the coats and if so whats a good mix ratio?

thanks


wayne

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Re: hardner question

Post by 89jeepyj on September 26th 2012, 3:19 pm

I would use the hardener, rolled or sprayed. The typical spray ratio I have found is;
4 parts paint
1 part thinner
1 part hardener

Wear a quality respirator and paint suit when spraying, the hardener can have some nasty health effects.


Last edited by 89jeepyj on September 26th 2012, 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spacing)

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Re: hardner question

Post by retired plumber on September 26th 2012, 7:18 pm

89jeepyj is right on about the nasty health effects of the hardener. If you want to be able to breathe right in your later life, use a good respirator.
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Re: hardner question

Post by rain74 on September 26th 2012, 7:43 pm

I've seen this 4-1-1 ratio a few times on this forum and seen the advice that cac1967 and 89jeepyj has given. I have a 74 VW Bug coming back from the sandblaster soon and I'm still trying to figure out if Rustoleum is the right way to go for this project.

Spraying Stops-Rust enamel sounds like it would be the best idea to help protect the little critter but I'm worried about fading, chaulking, chipping and scratching. Using hardner in Rustoleum Stops-Rust sounds like the solution. Does anyone have any feedback on how long the application of Rustoleum + hardner will last if the surface is prepped properly? Other than Rustoleum spray cans, has anyone successfully used a clear top coat that was compatible with the Rustoleum Stops-Rust?

Can any brand acrylic enamel hardner be used? I hear talk of valspar but see others.

I did find a website rustoleumpaintjob[dot]com that claims to have a report that will reveal a 'secret blend'. I'm skeptical that anything it won't have anything more to reveal that what you guys here already know.

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dont do it waste of money (secret blend)

Post by wayne57 on September 26th 2012, 7:55 pm

rain74 wrote:I've seen this 4-1-1 ratio a few times on this forum and seen the advice that cac1967 and 89jeepyj has given. I have a 74 VW Bug coming back from the sandblaster soon and I'm still trying to figure out if Rustoleum is the right way to go for this project.

Spraying Stops-Rust enamel sounds like it would be the best idea to help protect the little critter but I'm worried about fading, chaulking, chipping and scratching. Using hardner in Rustoleum Stops-Rust sounds like the solution. Does anyone have any feedback on how long the application of Rustoleum + hardner will last if the surface is prepped properly? Other than Rustoleum spray cans, has anyone successfully used a clear top coat that was compatible with the Rustoleum Stops-Rust?

Can any brand acrylic enamel hardner be used? I hear talk of valspar but see others.

I did find a website rustoleumpaintjob[dot]com that claims to have a report that will reveal a 'secret blend'. I'm skeptical that anything it won't have anything more to reveal that what you guys here already know.

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Re: hardner question

Post by rain74 on September 26th 2012, 8:55 pm

Thank you Wayne. Is that the voice of experience? Smile

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shamefully yes it is lol

Post by wayne57 on September 26th 2012, 10:40 pm

rain74 wrote:Thank you Wayne. Is that the voice of experience? Smile

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Re: hardner question

Post by Samilcar on September 27th 2012, 10:04 am

rain74 wrote:
Can any brand acrylic enamel hardner be used? I hear talk of valspar but see others.

The Valspar hardener isn't an acrylic enamel hardener, it's a straight enamel (AKA alkyd enamel, AKA synthetic enamel) hardener. The only difference between the two types of hardeners is the solvent that they're designed to mix with. The acrylic enamel hardener mixes well with the fast evaporating solvents that acrylic enamel is reduced with (acetone, xylene, MEK etc), the Valspar type hardener mixes well with the mineral spirits that straight enamel is normally thinned with.

People have used acrylic enamel hardener with success in a straight enamel/mineral spirits mix however.

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Re: hardner question

Post by inda_bebe on September 27th 2012, 5:36 pm

someone said you can sub the valspar w/ japan drier.

i used the summit brand hardener and worked great mixed w/ MS

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Re: hardner question

Post by rain74 on September 27th 2012, 6:04 pm

Samilcar wrote:

The Valspar hardener isn't an acrylic enamel hardener, it's a straight [alkyd] enamel hardener. <snip> ...the Valspar type hardener mixes well with the mineral spirits that straight enamel is normally thinned with.

Brilliant! That is the best explanation that I've heard so far.

Now I'm off to see what kind of enamel the Rustoleum is. When I called rustoleum corp they instructed to mix the Stops-Rust protective enamel with Acetone for faster drying --or-- Mineral Spirits for slower drying (so that paint doesn't dry on the way to the surface and coat the surface with 'powder' that would cause a chaulky look).

The MSDS sheet ( link removed due to forum restrictions ) seems to show that 'Stops-Rust' contains Mineral Spirits [100ppm?].

Ah! here we go on the TDS sheet for Regal Red-High Gloss [ link removed due to forum restrictions ]

Rustoleum wrote:
PHYSICAL PROPERTIES
High Gloss
Resin Type Oil modified Alkyd
Pigment Type Varies with Color
Solvents Mineral Spirits
Weight
Per Gallon 7.4-9.9 lbs.
Per Liter 0.9-1.2 kg/l
Solids
By Weight 51.0-52.2%
By Volume 37.0-42.3%

Dry Times at 77F (25C) and 50% Rel. Hum.
Touch 2-4 hours
Handle 5-9 hours
Recoat After 24 hours
Dry Heat Resistance = 200F (93C)
Shelf Life = 5 years

I'm swimming in newbie first time information. I should start a new thread outlining how I'm going to do things and why to make sure I don't mess up. I wonder about Mineral Spirits -vs- Acetone and how does it affect recoat times. I also wonder if the recoat time specified on the TDS specifies the physical bond (sanding) or the chemical bond (because the paint isn't dry yet). I want to make sure I avoid adding additional layers before the previous layers have the proper time to dry.

Thank you guys for all your knowledge and wisdom. I suppose painting the underside of the body and painting the chassis will be good practice for when I paint the body.

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Re: hardner question

Post by rain74 on September 28th 2012, 4:29 pm

How flexible are Rustoleum Enamel paint jobs when you use hardner? Does it make it less flexible? Does anyone foresee a problem with those big wobbly VW hoods?

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Re: hardner question

Post by 89jeepyj on September 28th 2012, 4:45 pm

Rustoleum stays quite flexible, even with the hardener. It holds up great thumbs up on the hood of my Jeep which is just as wobbly as any Bug hood I have seen.

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Re: hardner question

Post by inda_bebe on October 1st 2012, 12:26 pm

i added mineral spirits and summit hardener to the rustoleum paint into a mixing cup and a day later, that thing look like a rubber mold. pretty cool looking.

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Re: hardner question

Post by rain74 on October 18th 2012, 11:27 pm

It seems that the Regal Red protective enamel that we want is only available locally in the PROFESSIONAL line. Should the Valspar enamel hardner be added to the PROFESSIONAL line of paint?

What about recoat times with the professional line? Does anyone have any experience with recoat times with the professional paint (with or without the enamel hardner)?

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Re: hardner question

Post by Samilcar on October 19th 2012, 9:16 am

Looking at the data sheets, the Professional line has more solids than the regular Stops Rust line (just by a few % by weight). This should let the Professional paint cover better, but both paints use mineral spirits as the carrier solvent, so the Valspar hardener will work the same in both.

Recoat times are listed as the same for both (2-4 hours touch, 5-9 hours handle, 24 hours recoat), but adding a hardener will shorten recoat times considerably. On my project with the Stops Rust version, the 2-4 hours touch time was reduced to about 1 hour.

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Re: hardner question

Post by rain74 on October 22nd 2012, 8:57 am

At a 4-1-1 ratio, it's easy to go through this hardner. Tractor Supply Co no longer sells the Valspar name. Now they have Magic!

So I got some Magic enamel hardner yesterday. I suspect it will make all my painting better now because it's magical!

How many coats of paint+hardner does one spray onto a car?

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Re: hardner question

Post by cac1967 on October 22nd 2012, 10:17 pm

I spray automotive paint like this , 1st coat is a tack this is to give the second coat something to stick too,this coat will not be full coverage,2nd coat isthe color coat, this is the coat that should give you good coverage, if it is a light or tranparent color you may need 2 color coat's, depending sometime's on the color of the primer used, 3rd or 4th coat is your gloss coat ,this is the coat that give's you your gloss,this coat is applied with the gun a tad closer to the surface, you need to keep this coat as wet as possible with out running the paint, there is a fine line between a nice shine and a big run's, so 3 or 4 coat's is what I do, hope this help's!!!! thumbs up

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