2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

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2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by 88k5jimmy on January 17th 2013, 9:28 pm

The paint is in several different variations on my daily driver...clear coat peeling, faded originally painted panels (from what I can tell), some repainted panels, etc. The extent of body damage is door dings, a couple small dents, scratches, rock chips and one wrinkled/dented rear quarter panel. A professional paint job would cost more that what I paid for the car so I think this is an excellent candidate for rolling and I would also like to learn some basics of body work. You can see the pics of the cars condition in the following album:

01 Mirage <---click here

My thoughts on the prep stages:

As you can see the clear is peeling in various locations on the car (hood, tops of fenders, below taillight, etc). I plan on using a Harbor Freight orbital sander with 400 grit sandpaper to eliminate the peeling clear coat (extending past the peel line a couple inches as well) and elbow grease next to edges where the orbital doesn’t reach on the entire car for prep sanding. I don’t plan on having to prime the entire car since I’m not changing colors and I’m putting red over red, so I was just going to spot prime as necessary. Is that correct?

I am going to replace the front bumper with a replacement and add a front lip while I'm at it. I have searched the forum and found information on prepping/sanding existing (I’m assuming painted) bumpers but what is the process for prepping new/raw bumpers?

There aren’t many door dings but I would like to fix the ones that are there. Please review the process I plan on using to fix the door dings and advise/comment (I’m a newbie so bare with me):

Sand door ding to bare metal in affected spot only. Apply filler as thin as possible but still fill door ding Filler should be no more than 1/16"-1/8". Feather the edge of the filler to blend into existing body panel to eliminate excess sanding and filler edges. Block filler with 80 grit. Apply glazing putty to fill filler scratches over entire door ding area. (Is glazing putty really necessary or can I sand with a higher grit sandpaper to eliminate filler scratches? I’m assuming glazing putty is just another way to “fill” the filler scratches before primer?) Block with 150-180 grit. Apply sandable primer (Rustoleum auto filler primer spray can). Final sand primer with 400 grit before paint.

The drivers rear quarter panel will be the most work and I plan on getting the Harbor Freight stud welder dent repair kit and pull the sheet metal out, then repeat the filling, etc process on that area.


My thoughts on the paint process:

I plan on using Rusto Marine Topside bright red for its UV resistance, durability, and since the car is red, that’s what color I want to go back with. For paint ratios I will follow what Samilcar did on his 93 Geo, with Shur-Line Ultra Smooth Surface rollers. I will also follow the wet sanding process Samilcar did on his 93 Geo during paint coats and final buff. However, since this is my daily driver, can I do the car in stages as in hood, fenders, trunk, roof, and doors all at different times assuming of course the paint ratios and coats are consistent? I know I may end up using more rollers since I will be adding hardener but that is an acceptable trade off.

Thoughts, comments, tips, etc are more than welcome.

Thanks
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by 63Falconconvert on January 17th 2013, 10:39 pm

Your plan sound good. I did my Falcon in stages, Rear quarters first, then the trunk, doors, front fenders then the hood was last. Make sure that your ratios stay consistant and try to paint when the temp outside is the same as when you start. (not sure if this makes sense) I tried to paint when the temp was around 55-65, low humidity. Different temps will do funny things to paint.
Start with your trunk lid. Get the "feel" for rolling, take your time and don't skip any steps.
If you're not sure of something, ask one of us. We have all been through the good & bad of rolling.

Good luck. Your car will pop with some new bright red paint! thumbs up
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by 88k5jimmy on January 18th 2013, 1:40 pm

I plan on taking more pictures tomorrow to show the door dings. I'm just curious if I will need to go completely down to bare metal in all the small door dings to use filler or if there is a filler out there that doesn't require bare metal to fill?
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by Samilcar on January 18th 2013, 1:48 pm

Some newer premium filler products claim to work just as well over sound paint (not flaking or cracked) as long as the paint is cleaned and sanded properly prior to application. This is somewhat controversial in the body shop community, as the practice with older fillers was to go down to bare metal wherever filler was to be applied. I ended up using a premium filler over sanded paint, and it has held up well so far.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by 63Falconconvert on January 19th 2013, 10:40 am

If you have small door dings, not big dents, you can fill with a Polyester putty filler. Thats good for filling in SMALL dings, deep sctratches etc.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/3M-16-oz-Bondo-professional-finishing-glaze/_/N-25u5?itemIdentifier=61774_0_0_
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by Samilcar on January 19th 2013, 12:06 pm

I agree, only for very shallow (1/16") dings. I had a dent repair area that I had to use a dent puller on, and used fiberglass reinforced filler (Bondo Glass) on this one area, because I was pretty sure that the surface after dent pulling was more than 1/16" away from the original contour of the panel.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by 88k5jimmy on January 19th 2013, 12:40 pm

I uploaded some more pictures of the small dings. Some of them are hard to see because I thought they would be more visible in the light but I don't think they are more than 1/16"-1/8", 95% sure they aren't more than 1/8". Some you can barely feel but with it being clean and now since I'm paying more attention to the body panels than I did before, I'm seeing more dings. Based on the uploaded pictures of the dings, do you think I can get away with using the Bondo Ultimate Filler (thanks Samilcar), properly sanding before of course?

Thanks
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by Samilcar on January 19th 2013, 1:09 pm

Those look like pretty shallow dings to me. A very thin skim coat of filler over those should work, just make sure to use a long board sander so the filler is as flat and smooth as possible. If you just use a small block sander, you'll have slight reflection ripples in the final painted surface (don't ask me how I know this, ARRGH).


"since I'm paying more attention to the body panels than I did before, I'm seeing more dings"

Hah! You're hooked now. Pretty soon you'll be noticing all of the orange peel in the paint jobs of brand new cars.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by 63Falconconvert on January 19th 2013, 4:15 pm

I 2nd what Samilcar posted. I used Bondo Gold on the 63 with no problems.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by 88k5jimmy on January 22nd 2013, 12:04 pm

I was trying to buy some stuff locally like filler and sandpaper, etc but apparently nobody has heard of Bondo Ultimate. Are there any other premium fillers that can be used on top of sanded paint as we discussed above? I would like to avoid having to go to bare metal on every single one of these door dings. Local places have Evercoat but can you apply it over sanded paint? Will the Bondo Gold go over sanded paint as well? There is also the heated debate of Bondo is better...no Evercoat is better, etc, etc.


**UPDATE**

Went by two auto parts stores that carry the Bondo Gold and a Sherwin Williams automotive refinishes store that carries Evercoat Rage. One auto parts store Bondo Gold label didn't state you had to take it down to bare metal. The other auto parts store Bondo Gold label stated you had to take it down to bare metal....which to believe? The labels were different (as in design/cosmetically) between the two Bondo Gold labels but they were for sure both Bondo Gold. The Sherwin Williams automotive refinishes store sold Evercoat Rage and their product book stated you could put it over OEM paint finishes and if you pull up the online info PDF sheet on the Evercoat Rage, it states to remove only the paint before application.

So I guess my question is Evercoat Rage or Bondo Ultimate? Either way, I'm probably going to end up ordering online to alleviate the hassle of running around all over town.

Thanks
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by Samilcar on January 22nd 2013, 3:21 pm

Yeah, asking opinions about body filler is sort of like asking opinions about politics.

Evercoat's FAQ page says: "Fillers and putties will normally work OK over properly sanded (80-180grit) cured OEM paint. However, with so many different types of aftermarket paint available, we recommend that all paint be removed where filler is to be applied."

I take this to mean that, as long as the paint surface is sound and properly prepped, filler over paint is acceptable, but not preferred. Which makes sense, because you know 100% that a properly cleaned and sanded bare metal surface will not peel off of the car. You will always have some degree of uncertainty as to whether the same is true with a layer of paint, OEM or otherwise.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by cac1967 on January 22nd 2013, 6:56 pm

I use rage gold filler , I learned body work from my dad and I was alway's told by him and friend's in the body work bussiness to alway's take it to bear metal to see what gremlin's may be underneath the paint and ruff up the surface for better adhesion of the filler. so I agree 100% with samlicar !!!! thumbs up
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by 63Falconconvert on January 23rd 2013, 5:56 pm

I 3rd that. thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by 88k5jimmy on January 23rd 2013, 10:24 pm

I tried to get the most accurate measurement of depth of all the dings by using a metal straight edge crossing over the ding to the straight portions of the panel on both sides of the ding. I then took a spark plug gap feeler and found the gap that would slide into the ding without lifting the straight edge off the panel. The largest feeler gauge for any of the dents was a 0.011, which is less than 1/16" (0.0625).

It may not be the most scientific way of trying to determine the depth of the ding but it gives myself and you guys a better idea of the depth of the ding I'm trying to describe. Obviously the lowest point of the ding will be slightly lower than the feeler gauge that fit between the straight edge and the panel but I think it's something to go on.

With that said, I think I can get away with the Bondo Ultimate over the properly sanded paint. I spoke with a Bondo rep today who has used the Ultimate and he stated to scuff the ding with 180 grit and then apply filler. Block filler with 180 grit, prime, final block with 400 grit before paint. In my conversation with the Bondo rep I also asked him flat out if that was a sales pitch to make me buy the Ultimate and he gave me his background in bodywork and with using the Ultimate, so I don't feel like he was telling me what I wanted to hear.

Thoughts, comments, disagreements?


Last edited by 88k5jimmy on January 26th 2013, 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : 1/16 is 0.0625 not 0.625)
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage possible project questions

Post by Samilcar on January 24th 2013, 9:54 am

I can't really disagree with your plan, sounds like it should work. Don't forget to clean the paint with a solvent (acetone, denatured alcohol, isopropyl alcohol, etc) before scuffing with the 180 grit. Traces of silicone based wax can get sanded into the paint and cause problems later on if you don't do this.
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