2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on July 31st 2013, 9:05 am

Should I try to get those low spots sanded down more?
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by rmdhokie on July 31st 2013, 10:02 am

I would go with another coat. The question you must answer during EVERY wet sanding session is: What's flat enough? To each his own based on the results you want. I had similar results to yours and moved forward with another coat and I was very happy with results. I did noticed your sanding through on your edges on the fender....stay away from the edges. I would recommend laying some blue or green tape along the edges and sand one area, remove and re-apply tape, sand opposite area. This process is about thin coats, doesn't take much to sand thru to previous layer.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by Samilcar on July 31st 2013, 3:08 pm

I agree with rmdhokie. If you try to get the paint perfectly flat on the first wetsand, you'll probably take off all of the paint that you've just put on. The low spots will fill in with the subsequent coats, and the high spots will continue to be sanded down during subsequent wet sanding sessions. I also agree with trying to stay away from edges during wet sanding. Sand right up to the edge, but not directly on it. It's very easy to go all the way through the paint if you hit an edge with the sandpaper, even after 12 coats (don't ask me how I know this).
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on July 31st 2013, 11:04 pm

Thanks for the replies. I tried to stay away from the edges as much as possible but obviously I need more practice. I was using the "hold your thumb on the outside of the paper/sponge and run your thumb on top of the edge" technique the guy from Dallas that cusses alot used in his video but it didn't work out very well. It almost seems like I went too far in wet sanding based on the comments. I don't think I will wet sand that fender anymore except for a couple places I want just a little bit flatter. The next panel I do should be better with edges and not trying to get the panel perfect, flatness wise.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on August 12th 2013, 10:11 pm

I know it's been a while since I posted but here's the update.  I finished wet sanding the entire car with 600 grit:







These are after the 4th coat.  I forgot to take pictures after the third but you get the idea:









I'm curious about the roller marks and/or hazyness you can see in these pictures:





What causes these areas?  Am I spreading the paint too thin?  Basically I am rolling the paint until it is even and flat, applying very little pressure after I have it spread on the panel, trying to aleviate any roller marks.  Some areas it does this, other areas it doesn't.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by rmdhokie on August 13th 2013, 6:49 am

Is it the same areas after each coat that are giving you trouble?
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by Samilcar on August 13th 2013, 9:28 am

I had a few areas like that, and discovered that it was caused by the paint setting up slightly before I'd stopped rolling (more like re-rolling) on that particular panel. I only had about 30 minutes after first applying paint to a panel before I couldn't roll on it anymore without getting those dull looking roller marks. This paint mix sets up fast.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on August 13th 2013, 10:57 am

No, it's not the same areas from what I remember. I almost want to say it was rolling too much and thinning out the paint but I'm not sure if that's the case. Once I have rolled a panel I don't go back over it. Any tips to fixing that? If it continues throughout the entire process will the final wet sand and buff clear that out?

Thanks
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by VeggieBullet on August 13th 2013, 1:39 pm

wow, this is looking good!
We will be following this thread very close as we are few steps behind you.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by rmdhokie on August 13th 2013, 2:16 pm

88k5jimmy wrote:No, it's not the same areas from what I remember. I almost want to say it was rolling too much and thinning out the paint but I'm not sure if that's the case. Once I have rolled a panel I don't go back over it. Any tips to fixing that?  If it continues throughout the entire process will the final wet sand and buff clear that out?

Thanks
Are you rolling the entire car every session? Again, there's many ways and techniques to complete and get the results you want. I did partial coats every session...meaning one day: 1 coat of the hood & trunk, day 2: rear quarters and fenders, etc. For me, it allowed me to focus on one or two areas of the car at a time and not roll like crazy to get the entire car done before the MS evaporated. I did have a couple of areas you mentioned above and it was from re-rolling an area where the paint had already started to setup. Granted, the way I did it will extend the timeframe to complete the entire paint job but it also worked with my schedule, allowing me to roll a coat on the hood after work, next night the fenders, etc. Your paint work is looking good. Looks like no issues with adhesion so wet sand, reapply, repeat until you're satisfied.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on August 13th 2013, 2:29 pm

rmdhokie wrote:
88k5jimmy wrote:No, it's not the same areas from what I remember. I almost want to say it was rolling too much and thinning out the paint but I'm not sure if that's the case. Once I have rolled a panel I don't go back over it. Any tips to fixing that?  If it continues throughout the entire process will the final wet sand and buff clear that out?

Thanks
Are you rolling the entire car every session? Again, there's many ways and techniques to complete and get the results you want. I did partial coats every session...meaning one day: 1 coat of the hood & trunk, day 2: rear quarters and fenders, etc.   For me, it allowed me to focus on one or two areas of the car at a time and not roll like crazy to get the entire car done before the MS evaporated.  I did have a couple of areas you mentioned above and it was from re-rolling an area where the paint had already started to setup.  Granted, the way I did it will extend the timeframe to complete the entire paint job but it also worked with my schedule, allowing me to roll a coat on the hood after work, next night the fenders, etc.  Your paint work is looking good.  Looks like no issues with adhesion so wet sand, reapply, repeat until you're satisfied.      
Yes, I'm rolling the entire car in one session and mixing the paint in one tray. I was wondering if the prolonged time the paint is in the tray is causing it to have areas like this but I paint the hood first every time and one of the hazy areas pictured is the hood. I'm not rushed when rolling, I just make sure I get the proper coverage before going to the next panel.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by Prospector on August 13th 2013, 4:39 pm

Do you use a foam brush in the off hand that's soaked in mineral spirits to go over the paint you just laid down with the roller? Left hand roller paint, right hand foam brush with mineral spirits, no pressure applied? That's how I've done it in the past, and it helps level out the paint and pop the bubbles. It's the tip part of tip and roll.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by Samilcar on August 13th 2013, 9:26 pm

88k5jimmy wrote:If it continues throughout the entire process will the final wet sand and buff clear that out?

Thanks
It should, yes.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on August 14th 2013, 9:20 am

Prospector wrote:Do you use a foam brush in the off hand  that's soaked in mineral spirits to go over the paint you just laid down with the roller?   Left hand roller paint, right hand foam brush with mineral spirits, no pressure applied?   That's how I've done it in the past, and it helps level out the paint and pop the bubbles.  It's the tip part of tip and roll.
No, I roll the roller in the paint and then roll the excess paint out of the roller and then tip the roller on end and push the excess paint out before I even let the roller touch the panel. From there I just spread the paint out and all the bubbles pop fairly quickly. After spreading the paint, I roll over the top of it with no pressure just to ensure its spread, there are no roller mark edges and all bubbles are popped. On my next two coats I may try spreading the paint but not spreading it so thin from where I initially started rolling. Maybe that will produce different results but in the mean time, I'm going to second round wet sand with 800 grit right now because it's 65 degees outside..oh, did I mention it's August in Oklahoma too??
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on August 18th 2013, 11:35 pm

Second round of wet sanding complete.  I didn't focus as much time on getting the wet sanding perfect and hitting every little area.  I did an overal wet sand of the panel, making sure to stay away from the edges.  I did accidentally go through the paint on a couple edges but not like on my first round of wet sanding.  





I also put the fifth coat on.  I revised my technique a little and put the paint on a little heavier than before and didn't spread it as thin either.  Results were better and solved my previous questions about the hazing, which make me believe I was spreading the paint too thin.  However, it does seem to flash pretty fast (always has, not just indicative of the fifth coat or change in technique) so I have to watch adjacent panels if the roller touches them so I can spread it out before it flashes.  The temperature was 80 degrees with 55% humidity.  Are the higher temps making the paint flash faster?



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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by Noah Zarq on August 20th 2013, 11:26 am

That looks good!
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on August 20th 2013, 11:26 pm

Coat #6 is on.  Wetsanding with 1000 grit will start after the 24hr drying time.  Coverage is looking good however, I can still see the spotty primer areas underneath in some areas.  Doors look splotchy out in the natural light but hopefully it covers fully since technically I'm only half way done with the total amount of coats.  I am shooting for 12 coats for full coverage.  








The darker area by the edge you can still see underneath the 6th coat:
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on September 2nd 2013, 9:19 pm

Wet sanded with 1000 grit after the 6th coat and then rolled the 7th and 8th coats on.  I know red is a very transparent color but I'm getting discouraged because I thought I would be getting better coverage after 8 coats.  I modified the 8th coat mixture to hopefully get more paint coverage:

8 parts Rustoleum
4 parts acrylic enamel reducer (slow)
1 part mineral spirits
1 part synthetic enamel hardener

I can still see through all the layers to the splotchy areas underneath and the really dark body lines.  I think after the 8th coat it is less evident but i'm really concerned I will not get full coverage in 12 coats unless I change my paint mixture more or ??  What do you guys recommend because I need to get this finished up and am starting to loose patience.

After the 8th coat.  You can't see the splotchy areas unfortunately but underneath the flourescents and in natrual sun light you can see the areas.





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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by Samilcar on September 3rd 2013, 10:21 am

Yeah, this mix is thin, which is good for the paint laying down flat and shiny, but not so good for coverage. If you are going to adjust your mix, I would go from the 8 parts paint, 6 parts reducer, 2 parts mineral spirits, to 8 parts paint, 4 parts reducer, 4 parts mineral spirits (or maybe 8, 3, 3).

I was concerned also after the 8th coat with the same 8-6-2-1 mix, as coverage wasn't the greatest, but there was a big increase in coverage after the last 4 coats went down.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on September 10th 2013, 10:01 pm

10th coat is in the books.  I changed my mixture ratio on the 9th and 10th coats to the following to hopefully get better paint coverage:

8 parts Rustoleum
3 parts acrylic enamel reducer (slow)
3 parts mineral spirits
1 part synthetic enamel hardener

Pictures below are after the 10th coat.  I plan on wetsanding (I wish for the last time) with 2000 grit and rolling on the 11th and 12th coat.  After the 12th coat I will determine if I have full coverage, especially in certain areas.  I have circled an area that I know still does not have full coverage.  It can be hard to see in pics but I know it's there, especially in direct sunlight.  Direct sunlight seems to bring out the splotchy areas:




Random shots:




Reflection shots:




What do you guys think? Also, once full coverage is achieved or when I give up, what is the process for final buff and polish? I haven't researched that process yet. I know I am going to use the HF buffer/polisher because I have access to one.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by Camaro Guy on September 11th 2013, 2:45 pm

New to roll on painting and new to the forum. Like what you've done so far, but have a question. About how much time can one expect to burn sanding between coats? Trying to get a handle on how long it will all take.

I know it's coming a bit late, but I hated to see you mud up those holes man. If water can get to the backside, it probably will wick it up and cause trouble. A light touch with the MIG, work and get out, will fill those up quite easily. Took me about 15 mins to get it down. Those who don't have a stud gun can also simply tack nails head first right to the panels. Works the same, but you don't need to own a stud gun and a MIG both.

Also had the same prob with Bondo leaving pin holes. I switched to Rage and OMG what a huge difference. Bondo works, but it is crap. Oh and just so you know, most rattle can primers and also single stage are not waterproof. I won't even take mine out of the garage when primered.

Another possible issue is the 400 grit. Anything over 320 doesn't leave much of a "tooth" so paint may not stay stick that well. When worked in a body shop many moons ago now. we finished off with 220 and those cars looked like new when they came out of the booth.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on September 11th 2013, 8:14 pm

Camaro Guy wrote:New to roll on painting and new to the forum. Like what you've done so far, but have a question. About how much time can one expect to burn sanding between coats? Trying to get a handle on how long it will all take.
It usually takes me a couple hours to wet sand.  It was taking more time during the first rounds of wet sanding but the higher the grit got, the less time it would take to wet sand the entire car.

Camaro Guy wrote:I know it's coming a bit late, but I hated to see you mud up those holes man. If water can get to the backside, it probably will wick it up and cause trouble. A light touch with the MIG, work and get out, will fill those up quite easily. Took me about 15 mins to get it down. Those who don't have a stud gun can also simply tack nails head first right to the panels. Works the same, but you don't need to own a stud gun and a MIG both.
Water can't get to the backside.  The backside of that panel is interior to the car, behind an interior panel.  I also seam sealed the panel from the backside after I filled the holes with Bondo hair.  I tried using the stud gun to fill the holes but it would burn through the panel too.  I feel confident I have the Bondo hair sealed up from the back side with the seam sealer.

Camaro Guy wrote:Also had the same prob with Bondo leaving pin holes. I switched to Rage and OMG what a huge difference. Bondo works, but it is crap. Oh and just so you know, most rattle can primers and also single stage are not waterproof. I won't even take mine out of the garage when primered.
I never took mine out of the garage after I rolled on the primer/surfacer.  All the individual primer panels were just primered with temporary primer so I could continue to drive the car daily until I had all the body work completed and I was ready to final prime.

Camaro Guy wrote:Another possible issue is the 400 grit. Anything over 320 doesn't leave much of a "tooth" so paint may not stay stick that well. When worked in a body shop many moons ago now. we finished off with 220 and those cars looked like new when they came out of the booth.
I followed the same method of utilizing 400 grit that several of the guys here used in their project threads and their results turned out great so I'm confident I won't have any adhesion problems.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by 88k5jimmy on September 16th 2013, 6:37 pm

I'm finishing up my 5th wet sand and these are the results so far:




I still plan on putting two more coats on for a total of 12 but I wanted to make sure I am sanding the orange peel down enough.  I am using 2000 grit and plan on using that after the 12th coat.  Is this enough sanding for when I buff and polish?
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by Samilcar on September 17th 2013, 7:25 pm

Looks good.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

Post by Tommy Hillbilly on September 18th 2013, 12:32 am

I think you want to get rid of those shiny craters by getting the rest of the paint down to their level.
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Re: 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage

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