HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

View previous topic View next topic Go down

HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by brokenjack on April 27th 2008, 10:50 pm

Hello all, Just to let everyone know, I'll be painting my car with the Harbor Freight Sprayer and Rustoleum Professional High Performance Sunburst Yellow

This will be the first time I have sprayed a car, so I'll try to document as I go along. Haven't been totally satisfied with the information I've gotten on the various sites, so this will be sort of a pioneering effort. I'll try to document all my successes and failures as detailed as possible. Tune in.


+

+


Last edited by brokenjack on May 1st 2008, 1:41 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Gots to include pictures man)
avatar
brokenjack
Rank
Rank

Number of posts : 12
Age : 48
Location : Richmond, VA
Job/hobbies : TV/Film Director
Project : 1969 MK III Triumph Spitfire
Registration date : 2008-04-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by megaglow_z on April 27th 2008, 11:00 pm

looking forward to it man!
avatar
megaglow_z
200+ Poster!
200+ Poster!

Number of posts : 261
Age : 45
Location : Benton, La.
Job/hobbies : Autoglass tech
Project : 81 Yota
Registration date : 2007-12-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

First Gun Test

Post by brokenjack on April 29th 2008, 11:36 am

Still waiting on my paint. Rustoleum professional high performance sunburst yellow was hard to find so I ordered it online. Had to buy 2 gallons. Anyway I started messing around with the harbor freight turbine gun. I made a mark on the volume control knob on the back of the gun so I could count how many revolutions I opened it.


I used some safety yellow I had bought to compare color to the sunburst yellow. I thinned it below 10% with acetone. Some people have recommended mineral spirits, and I think it's because mineral spirits do not evaporate as fast as acetone and therefore makes the paint "lie down" better. I don't know, I'm a hack. Anyway I like acetone. For me it seems like it keeps the runs down and that's what rustoleum suggests (for their professional paint anyway). My garage was 60 degrees F

I started with the volume control knob opened 5 complete turns from closed (note-do not tighten the knob you will break it). The paint was splattering a bit, and I opened it up 2 more turns. Volume control knob opened up 7 turns total. Paint came out a little better, but it was obvious to me that I needed to thin more. Since it was below 70 degrees in my shop, that might have had something to do with it as well. I went ahead and sprayed what I had in the cup on a piece of drywall.



As you can see, it's pretty bumpy
Pictures were taken about 10 min after shooting.

here's a close up.


There were no runs, but I had to make a lot of passes to get coverage.
I think I need to thin more. I don't mind too much about the bumpiness aka orange peel since I'd rather sand that instead of runs. I will do another test in warmer temp with a more exact percentage of thinner.

For those scoring at home:
Temp: 60F
Gun: Harbor Freight 44677-3VGA Electric HVLP Sprayer
Needle: 1.5mm
Volume Control: 7 complete turns
Paint: Rustoleum professional safety yellow
Thinner: Acetone
Thinner %: 5-10% Didn't really measure well (got too anxious to shoot the paint)
Result: More passes of paint than I expected. No runs and built up well. Small paint splattering resulting in orange peel (which might not be the correct term since it occured while I was spraying)

Next update: Another gun test in warmer temp/more thinner

Disclaimer: This is just one mans experience your results may vary. I'm not a painter...in fact, I have never done any of this before. So don't wear down your fingerprints telling me I don't know what I'm doing. I'll save you the trouble---I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING-- I plan on making lots of mistakes as part of the tuition. Also...yeah, I know 2K auto paint is better...It's been said a thousand times...And I respect the frustration some folks have when a perfectly good Ferrari gets a mediocre coat of hardware paint. My response is ---Don't take yourself so seriously...Nobody got hurt and the sun still rises in the morning. I just want to paint my car with Rustoleum...I have my reasons that I don't feel I need to explain to professional auto shop painters.

Kudos to this forum, I hope it grows more popular.


Last edited by brokenjack on May 1st 2008, 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
brokenjack
Rank
Rank

Number of posts : 12
Age : 48
Location : Richmond, VA
Job/hobbies : TV/Film Director
Project : 1969 MK III Triumph Spitfire
Registration date : 2008-04-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by retired plumber on April 29th 2008, 4:36 pm

I still remember the first car I painted. I used green metallic synthetic enamal and the wrong thinner in a garage with a hand held droop light for light. Also the garage had a post real close to the rear fender and yes, I ran into the post and fell into the paint the first pass. Second time I remembered the post with my body but still hit it with a spray gun arm swing pass and no, it wasent a run, it was a curtain about 8in long. Said @#& n(*&^#@ and wiped it off with a rag and gently went over it again. Anyway, a bit later we took tke masking off and pushed the car outside into the sun. At this time the car had dried to the touch so we figured no problem besides it was beer thirty................later on that evening we found a large maple leaf had fallen dead center on the hood. Even tho it didn't stick it still left it impression on the hood. Dry to the touch but not hard yet LOL. All in all tho it turned out pretty good and lasted for a year untill I got rid of it.
I think I was all of 20 at that time and yes, I did NOT hurt my painting pardner and the sun has come up every morning since then (40+ years). We still laugh about it. Enjoy your experience to the fullest. I know I did and still do and am looking forward to my first roller job.
Maybe the orange peel on the sheet rock can be attributed to the moisture in the paint lifting the paper in the sheet rock (a guess) and yes, I hope this forum grows also.
Mike
avatar
retired plumber
1000+ Poster
1000+ Poster

Number of posts : 1004
Age : 73
Location : Tucson Az finally
Job/hobbies : retired honey does and the occasional custom car (old school)
Project : figuring out how to do metalflake
Registration date : 2008-04-27

View user profile http://glasaholic.com

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by brokenjack on April 29th 2008, 5:05 pm

retired plumber wrote:
Maybe the orange peel on the sheet rock can be attributed to the moisture in the paint lifting the paper in the sheet rock (a guess) and yes, I hope this forum grows also.
Mike

Yep I thought about that, but the paint was going on like micro-curd cottage cheese and it was a little cold. I think I'm going to be shooting lots of dry wall since I've got a stack of scraps that I just had to save cause "you never know when you'll need them" and I think this is the one of those rare times that the quote rings true.

I plan on documenting the practice sprays in detail, and I've been itching to experiment with penetrol and Japan drier. I might try to block sand the previously sprayed dry wall and paint over that. Who the heck knows when I'll actually get to the car.

As much as there has been written about this, I still think I need to go through the process of trial and error.
avatar
brokenjack
Rank
Rank

Number of posts : 12
Age : 48
Location : Richmond, VA
Job/hobbies : TV/Film Director
Project : 1969 MK III Triumph Spitfire
Registration date : 2008-04-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by retired plumber on April 29th 2008, 6:10 pm

Trial and error will be the way to go. I haven't used the style of gun you are using but describing the paint going on as micro-cottage cheese would lead me to believe you might need to thin it a bit more. Also the gun set up makes a BIG difference.
I have sprayed auto paint at 40 degrees outside in the driveway and it layed down good untill a gust of wind would hit it and then look out orange peel.
Mike
avatar
retired plumber
1000+ Poster
1000+ Poster

Number of posts : 1004
Age : 73
Location : Tucson Az finally
Job/hobbies : retired honey does and the occasional custom car (old school)
Project : figuring out how to do metalflake
Registration date : 2008-04-27

View user profile http://glasaholic.com

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by brokenjack on April 29th 2008, 11:25 pm

Ok so I made some adjustments:
Couldn't wait till it got warmer, so I'm still shooting the paint at 60 degrees F. Actually I think it was 56F but who's counting.
I jumped the mix of acetone to 25% and started shooting over the panel from the first test. I did hastily dry sand the panel in one area with 400 grit, but I didn't get all the peel off. The paint flowed great. I started painting with the control knob opened 5 turns and then I turned back 2 turns to 3 turns open. I can safely paint well within the range of 3-5 turns open on the volume control knob. Again I got no runs, and could wet the area pretty easily. It was hard to determine coverage since I was painting over the same color. Also the can says thin up to 15%. The air coming out of the sprayer is warm (the hose to the gun is warm to the touch) so I felt going up to 25% would be ok since the acetone evaporates pretty fast.

As you can see, the peel is still there, but there is major improvement. I do think if I were painting a slicker surface, It would be better still. Also the picture was taken about 10min after paint.



So...

For those scoring at home:
Date:April 29 2008
Time: 9:15PM EST
Location: Richmond, VA
Temp: 56F
Humidity:60%
Gun: Harbor Freight 44677-3VGA Electric HVLP Sprayer
Needle: 1.5mm
Volume Control: Between 3-5 turns open
Paint: Rustoleum professional safety yellow
Thinner: Acetone
Thinner %: 25% (I would comfortably thin between 15-25%...The can says up to 15%)
Result: Paint ceased to splatter and there were no runs. Peel remains, but that could be due to previous coat and maybe substrate pointed out by retiredplumber in previous post. I am pretty comfortable with this setup and since I'll be color sanding anyhoo, the peel is not much of an issue.

Next test will be adding penetrol with the above settings


Last edited by brokenjack on May 1st 2008, 1:47 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : after reading about penetrol it would be unwise to use as a thinner)
avatar
brokenjack
Rank
Rank

Number of posts : 12
Age : 48
Location : Richmond, VA
Job/hobbies : TV/Film Director
Project : 1969 MK III Triumph Spitfire
Registration date : 2008-04-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by brokenjack on April 30th 2008, 9:45 pm

Here we go again...

It's about 60F degrees and I added Penetrol to the above mix. Acetone was added 25% and Penetrol was added 25%. Well I got runs finally. I think subconciously I was trying to get them this time. I can't totally blame the addition of Penetrol because I just kept spraying one spot over and over again. Operator error. Was so confident on my previous spraying I just kept on making passes.
Take a look




Kinda looks like there's an alien autopsy going on...


For those scoring at home:
Date:April 30 2008
Time: 7:15PM EST
Location: Richmond, VA
Temp: 60F
Humidity:60%
Gun: Harbor Freight 44677-3VGA Electric HVLP Sprayer
Needle: 1.5mm
Volume Control: 3 turns
Paint: Rustoleum professional safety yellow
Additive: Penetrol @ 25%
Thinner: Acetone @ 25%
Result: Paint ran but it's because I layed it on thick. There is still peel, but something tells me it's slightly not as bad as before in the spot where the coat is lighter. I think I will still use Penetrol but just add about 10%. The gun is cheap, so I know the limitations of the gun will probably not lay the paint down as smooth as glass.

I think I'm done with the tests and I have an idea of how things work now. I have the attention span of a 2 year old and I'm anxious to paint something real. I could keep testing in warmer temps with different ratios, but the variables are too many to make it practical and I could find myself with a lot of useless yellow squares. Maybe someone a little more scientific could take this further. So this is what I'm going to do, adjusting if necessary.

1 Professional Sunburst Yellow mixed with 25% acetone and 10% Penetrol.
2 Volume control knob opened 4 turns.
3 Apply 3 coats on the car in light to medium coats, allowing some time between coats to dry a little.
4 Sand with 400 enough for the paint to stick when everything is good and dry and repeat step 3.
5 Wetsand my a$$ off until everything is flat using 800, 1200, and then 2000.
6 Polish with whatever folks are using to polish (another learning experience)
7 Lie my yellow covered a$$ on the ground and give up the ghost (I'll try to take pictures of that as well)

Paint will be delivered on friday but I still need to do some more prep to the body, but I will try to get to the inside of the hood, inside of the trunk, inside of the doors, and windshield frame soon. I will document all that as well.
avatar
brokenjack
Rank
Rank

Number of posts : 12
Age : 48
Location : Richmond, VA
Job/hobbies : TV/Film Director
Project : 1969 MK III Triumph Spitfire
Registration date : 2008-04-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by retired plumber on May 5th 2008, 8:50 pm

Hi Brokenjack
Hows your painting comming? It just occured to me that since you never sprayed a car before you may need to know about wet edges. You need a lot of light around the car so whenever you look at where you are spraying you can see a reflection. As you spray, you will see the just sprayed paint as a wet pass. Over lap this pass by 1/2 with the next one and so on. The idea is not to have a dry area. This will all show up as you see light reflected off of the just painted area. It all should look wet. The dry areas will be rough and produce orange peel on the next pass.
Generally the first pass is a light one and then you let it tack (per instructions on can) or tacky to the tough. Test on some of the masking. This is Usually followed by two wet coats with the tack time between them. The first coat is not supposed to completely cover. That is the job of the next two. final coat is way over reduced and just misted on from about 16-24 inches away. The theory is that the extra reducer in that coat will help the orange peel flow out and be glass smooth. (yah, right)
If your gun instructions dosen't give a distance from gun to surface, try app 8in and the gun must be kept at a 90 degree angle to the surface when spraying, otherwise you get different amounts of paint applied to the surface in each pass.
Also, try to make your passes as long as possible. Maybe even walking the length of the car for each one (thats what you do with transparent paint like candy anyway). What ever you do, don't make your starts and stops in the middle of a panel because it will show.
Just for your info, yellow is one of the hardest paints to get good coverage with. always takes more than most other colors.
Mike
avatar
retired plumber
1000+ Poster
1000+ Poster

Number of posts : 1004
Age : 73
Location : Tucson Az finally
Job/hobbies : retired honey does and the occasional custom car (old school)
Project : figuring out how to do metalflake
Registration date : 2008-04-27

View user profile http://glasaholic.com

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by Travellerjones on May 6th 2008, 7:13 am

Mike

Thanks for that. I havent sprayed a car in about 20yrs and it was a good refresher.

Cheers

Andy cheers
avatar
Travellerjones
Rank
Rank

Number of posts : 29
Age : 49
Location : Montreal
Job/hobbies : Aero Engineer
Project : 73 MGb Roadster
Registration date : 2007-12-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by brokenjack on May 6th 2008, 10:37 pm

Awesome advice! I actually watched as my car was sprayed about 12 years ago by a friend of mine who was pretty experienced and did a decent job with a bunch of Sikkens auto paint mixed up together from some leftover mismatched reds. Alot of what I had read on spraying dealt with "dry spots" etc.

I am still waiting on my paint. UPS damaged it so I have to wait another week before I can get down to business. I am going to start out by spraying the inside of the hood and trunk before I do the outside of the car.

I'm sure I'll make some mistakes, but will definetly take your advice into account as I begin.

Alot of people who have rolled their car insist that I use mineral spirits to thin, but after shooting some paint with mineral spirits, I really think acetone is still the best when spraying because you get that tack similar to real auto paint, and can get more paint on the car quicker. I'm pretty lazy, and fortunate enough to have the space to spray rather than taking all that time applying and sanding 10+ coats.
avatar
brokenjack
Rank
Rank

Number of posts : 12
Age : 48
Location : Richmond, VA
Job/hobbies : TV/Film Director
Project : 1969 MK III Triumph Spitfire
Registration date : 2008-04-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by retired plumber on May 7th 2008, 1:50 pm

Let us know how the acetone mix sprays because I am really curious. It is a much hotter reducer than mineral spirits and I would think it would be overkill but sometimes. that works for your good, especially when you are "using it outside the box".
Mike
avatar
retired plumber
1000+ Poster
1000+ Poster

Number of posts : 1004
Age : 73
Location : Tucson Az finally
Job/hobbies : retired honey does and the occasional custom car (old school)
Project : figuring out how to do metalflake
Registration date : 2008-04-27

View user profile http://glasaholic.com

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by brokenjack on May 7th 2008, 9:38 pm

I think temperature has alot to do with it. I was spraying when it was a little cooler. Now we're seeing temps in the 80's, so I'll probably have to adjust a bit.
avatar
brokenjack
Rank
Rank

Number of posts : 12
Age : 48
Location : Richmond, VA
Job/hobbies : TV/Film Director
Project : 1969 MK III Triumph Spitfire
Registration date : 2008-04-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by retired plumber on May 8th 2008, 12:15 am

Oh yes, temperature has a whole lot to do with it. With auto paint there are three different speeds of reducer you use depending on temperature. Then if it gets real hot you can also get retarder which slows the drying down even more.
The last truck I painted was outside in a makeshift clear viscrene shelter and it was about 60 degrees and I was in the shade. When the sun hit the shelter the temp shot up and all of a sudden there was NO flowout on the paint and I had to sand a long time to get it smooth ( I didn't realize it got hotter and when I did I was almost done and didn't want to stop and mix different paint).
Mike
avatar
retired plumber
1000+ Poster
1000+ Poster

Number of posts : 1004
Age : 73
Location : Tucson Az finally
Job/hobbies : retired honey does and the occasional custom car (old school)
Project : figuring out how to do metalflake
Registration date : 2008-04-27

View user profile http://glasaholic.com

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by Useless on October 24th 2008, 6:14 pm

Any updates on this project?
avatar
Useless
Rank
Rank

Number of posts : 4
Age : 34
Location : Virginia
Project : VW Cabriolet, '63 Valiant Convertible
Registration date : 2008-08-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: HF Electric Sprayer + Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow Project

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum