MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

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MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by microshift on April 20th 2009, 3:52 pm

Hello
I'm a newbee in this DIY Paint jobs Wink

This project is for car that has a lot or curves, the Mazda MX-3



The materials I use are:

Black Interlux Brightside (the paint)
Acetone (the thinner)
Primer can
sanding papers
and... rollers

I've started the project and and have some questions because some panels have paint peeling.

I've done the prep work with bondo and sanding and sprayed primer over the bondo.

Then I made first try on a fender 100% covered by primer.
Unfortunately the paint did not stick to the primer. I was able to remove the paint using tape mask (it peels of as I removed the tape)
I supposed it happened because I didn't sand the primer before applying the paint.
Then I did a second try on the same fender but after sanding the primer a little bit.
Unfortunately the paint was still pelling out while pulling some tape as previously. But on some areas, the paint was not peeling and seemed good. That parts had primer removed during the sand I did before.
The for the third try, I removed all the primer and the paint seems to be fixed.

I don't know if that happen to someone else before, but it seems Brightside doesn't like any kind of primer.
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by retired plumber on April 20th 2009, 4:50 pm

I've never used interlux before so I won't comment on that part. There are several here who have used it and they should be along shortly.
What kind of tape were you using? The blue (low tack) or green (For cars) is the best type to put over paint. Also the paint has to have set up and be dry first. Sometimes there is silicone or other stuff under the sanded paint that that won't let it stick.
I have had paint come up with the tape before but it was almost always because there was contamination (wax, silicone ,oil etc) on the base paint or the wrong kind of tape was used. Did you wipe the car down with a degreaser before you started? Without seeing the peeled paint its hard to tell but this is just some of my experiences. Hope it helps.
Mike
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by retired plumber on April 20th 2009, 5:00 pm

Another thing that comes to mind is the compatability of the primer and paint. You can put any kind of paint over the paint the car came with (oem) but from there, look out. Most spray can primer is lacquer based but can also be enamel based and you can't mix the two together in the same can. You can spray (or roll) enamel over lacquer but not the other way. I THINK interlux is polyurathane so that should fit in the middle someplace but I have never used it so I don't know. Any way, good luck and hopefully somebody that has used interlux will come along soon.
Mike
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by microshift on April 20th 2009, 5:28 pm

Hello retired plumber Mike Smile

I was using paper tape from a the brand name's Tesa here in Europe. A yellow-beige's color tape. That's when I discovered the paint was peeling.
Then I used large plastic tape from the same brand to test the areas with paint and remove the failed paint at the same time.
The paint was completely dry (I guess) when doing that.

I did washed the car with liquid dish soap and them I clean also with acetone in a cloth but just a little bit because the primer was "melting" when I passed the cloth.

The following picture is the rear side of the car. The white is primer and the black is original paint (original but not stock)
It was all covered with black interlux and was looking nice. But then I tested it with plastic tape and it peeled off. So the stuf on the ground by the wheel is the plastic (transparent) tape covered with the peeled paint.

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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by microshift on April 20th 2009, 5:39 pm

retired plumber wrote:Another thing that comes to mind is the compatability of the primer and paint. You can put any kind of paint over the paint the car came with (oem) but from there, look out. Most spray can primer is lacquer based but can also be enamel based and you can't mix the two together in the same can. You can spray (or roll) enamel over lacquer but not the other way. I THINK interlux is polyurathane so that should fit in the middle someplace but I have never used it so I don't know. Any way, good luck and hopefully somebody that has used interlux will come along soon.
Mike

Yes, your thoughts are right, Interlux is polyurathane.

In the can of primer I used, it says 100% Acrylic Lead Free. And the it says in small letters among other instructions "Can be painted over even if not perfectly dry, without removing the underlaying coat"
Does that mean that IF perfectly dry, then the underlaying coat has to be removed before paint over??

Thanks Mike, your help is very appreciated Very Happy
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by retired plumber on April 20th 2009, 10:54 pm

Hi Micro
About the tape. I don't know what brands you have in Europe but here we have Scotch but I am sure they sell internationally. It is a blue tape and comes is several widths up to two inches and it is "low tack" and ment for house painters so they can leave it on for up to five days without lifting the paint under it. It works just fine for what we want but its not cheap. $2.50 plus a roll depending on where you get it. There is also green stuff by the same company that is marketed to the auto paint guys and it costs even more but use the blue. The clear plastic stuff you used will even pull hair off your arm LOL so it is a no-no for masking. Once you have the initial piece of tape down over the edges of chrome, around windows etc, the paper can go on with anything. Just as long as it only touches the blue tape and the paper.
The reason acetone softened the paint is because it is "hotter" than the paint and will disolve it. You need to use what the can says to use as a reducer. I have never used acetone for that so I won't comment on using that for reducer.
Primer. Is that a spray can or roll on? I guess it dosen't make much difference to except if spray it will be a very thin coat. I don't see any reason to remove an underlaying coat. That would be defeating what you are trying to do. I am guessing here that they mean if its set up for a long while that it needs to be scuff sanded to break up the gloss so the next coat will adhere. All paint has a "window" (time) where you can add more paint without doing anything to the coat you are covering and the new coat melts into the previous coat on a molucular level. If you are outside that window then you have to sand and that is what holds the new coat on. I also don't know what they mean by acrylic. Acrylic what? Several kinds pf paint call them selves acrylic........ so that might make a difference also. That was just a thought. Anyway, sorry about the book but I hope it shed some light on your problem.Good luck
Mike
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by btldigger on April 21st 2009, 12:29 am

My opinion is you have a contamination problem. As well the paint may not be mixing well with acetone. The correct thinner for brightside is xylene. If you need to prime I would ese the pre kote primer that interlux recomends although it sticks to bondo just fine without primer if you dont want to use it. I would go back and sand the whole panel with 320 grit then wash it off and wipe it down with xylene before painting. Try using the xylene to thin it with. That is the same thing that is in the spraying thinner recomended by interlux
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by retired plumber on April 21st 2009, 10:52 am

Car people think we are not quite all there anyway for using rusto and then, gasp, rolling it but btldigger is right. Even tho what we are doing is outside the box as far as painting a car, the directions on the can should still be followed. That is what the people that made the stuff says will work and it will. Experimenting with other stuff is fine and sometimes it works but we run the risk of it not working or not having the desired effect.
There have been several people here that have mixed several things in their paint and some worked fine, some Ok and some didn't at all. A search might turn up lots of info on the thinner you want to use.
Mike
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by microshift on April 21st 2009, 11:11 am

I've read somewhere that the thiner Interlux recommends is in great percentage Ketone which is similar to Acetone, only slower evaporation.
Anyway, acetone is doing well as thinner... at least in this short period (two weeks since I've painted.
There's a small orange peel but that's maybe because I choose sunny days to do the work and the fast evaporation didn't let time to flat the paint.
Besides that, the big problem is the primer I used.
Every single place that had this primer the paint peels off. Those areas and all around them where primer touched, paint didn't stick at all.
Funny thing, a bit of old primer that was exposed after sanding, paint stick to it very well and only came out sanding it.
So the problem I guess is only this cheap cans of primer I bought, because they were a big waste of money and labor...
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by microshift on April 21st 2009, 11:33 am

Progress pictures:
In this one, primer B is the cheap primer that paint doesn't stick to.
Primer C is old primer that Interlux seems to like, but was covered by black paint that Interlux paint didn't stick to either. So I'm taking the black out and leaving the primer.


In this picture, there's bare metal I sanded to.
Then there's primer A which seems to be an even older primer than primer C (the one Interlux likes) I hope Interlux likes primer A as well .
This all area seems to be already bodyshoped by previous owner of the car, so I will not bare metal it because it looks well done and I wouldn't do better.
There's also a paint peel example of how I tested the paint with the plastic (depilatory) tape Laughing
The tape was applied from the bottom to the top near the window and it only peeled where was the cheap primer and a bit over it, no more far.

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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by retired plumber on April 21st 2009, 12:25 pm

Thanks for the update. Its always nice to hear about a problem being solved. I enjoyed the pictures. If paint has stuck to primer A before than interlux should also.
Mike
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by microshift on April 21st 2009, 8:25 pm

Yep, the cause of the problem is located. I think its the primer.
Tomorrow I'll be doing some tests with a better quality primer and post the results.
By now I've been searching for the spots of bad primer under the Interlux paint all over the car. When I find them I peel off the paint and erase the bad primer with acetone and a cloth.

Now I realize, I should have started to document this project since the beginning. With some progress pictures it would be easier to now locate the areas with primer under the new paint.
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by microshift on April 23rd 2009, 8:20 pm

The primer seems good. I have a review of it in this topic here:
http://www.rolledon.com/bodywork-preparation-f10/question-primer-thiner-acetone-t359.htm

Now some pictures of today's work sculpt


Badged


De badged


Orange peel from yesterdays paint job


Tonight's paint


Close up of the wood. Last time I painted it there wasn't this marks and it was much more glossy. Also I notice that almost no bubbles this time. Maybe I put too much thinner in this job.
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by microshift on April 30th 2009, 9:23 am

I did some 800 grit sanding on this 1st layer while reading moparts thread for some info on Interlux. It was pretty thin so much of the layer was sanded out, but leaved a surface more perfect than before.

Then I decided to switch from acetone to mineral spirits on the next layers.

Note: Mineral spirit is know as White spirit in Europe. Taked a while to figure it out!!

Paint with Mineral spirit as thinner is much better than acetone as it evaporates more slowly, leaving more time to paint and then paint has more time to level it self.

The result of this layer was very good. Very little orange peel. Almost perfect!!
But I have to put more paint over because it stills too thin for final sand and
polish.
Then I did the 2nd layer of this new state of painting with Interlux+mineral spirits.
Final result was not as good as before as more orange peel showed up. Maybe because it accentuated the little OP that was before.
And I had some paint dropping on the fender because I put too much paint on the roller on that part.

I don't have pictures yet, but I'll take some detailed ones as soon as sun shines outdoor Wink
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looks good

Post by longdx on May 1st 2009, 5:46 pm

The paint job looks like it is coming along well. I cannot wait to see the final pictures.
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Re: MAZDA MX3 BLACK INTERLUX BRIGHTSIDE

Post by Coconut Eater on May 4th 2009, 3:21 pm

Keep going! The picture of your roof looks like mine did after coats 3-4, before I wet sanded it. You are on the right track!

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