Rustoleum advice!

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Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on May 13th 2009, 6:32 pm

Well, guys I am back at trying to finish painting my car. Along these lines I had an idea. Since jbudi101 and I painted his fender with auto paint but brushed it on, it turned out excellent but definitely lighter shade than expected. So what got me thinking was why does rustoleum seems so soft as compared to jbudi101's auto paint? Then it dawned on me (like duh!) it's the hardener. So today I bought some hardener (will post exact brand later cause I am tired but cost me $15 which will do over 1 gallon of paint) and mixed it with my paint/mineral spirits. I mixed it up too thick BUT, it did exactly what I wanted it too. On my first coat there is massive orange peel (again mixed too thick) but for a first coat who cares right. Now the cool part, it was completely dry after 2.5 hours. I let it sit for 5 hours and could wet sand with ease. It also wet sanded much better, felt just like the auto paint jbudi101 used. Now I will continue testing (thinning out the mix LoL) but I think I have a good solution to this rather soft paint compared to auto paint.

So far the mix was 4 parts paint, 1 part mineral spirits, .5 part hardener. Hardener was a bit thick and I do not feel I used enough mineral spirits but it all mixed smoothly and self leveled as well as a thick mix could.

I shall keep you all posted!
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by Coconut Eater on May 15th 2009, 7:18 pm

Yep, hardener will speed up the process. My son sprayed his Nissan today with Rusto Safety Red and though he did not use hardener, it dried about a gazillion times faster than when I rolled the same paint (prior to him wrecking it the second time). So I am interested to see how it wet sands with the hardener in it because as soon as I get out of this wheel chair I plan to paint my truck with a roller (outside) and spray (jambs and underhood).

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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by retired plumber on May 17th 2009, 11:41 am

MR2Miach, What kind of auto paint did you use. Regular enamel or what. I have a couple of different kinds and mineral spirits won't mix with either of them. It would be nice to know for people that want to patch a spot with the oem color without having to paint the whole car. thanks
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on May 20th 2009, 7:50 pm

I used rustoleum. I did however get automotive paint hardener. I am still playing around with some things, lost my job so I have been busy on the hunt for another one. I think I have a good idea on what needs to be done but give me a few more days for some experiments to be completed.

On a side note, I feel like a chemist with all the little things I have been testing.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 6th 2009, 2:32 am

Got some updates. Still testing things mind you but I think I have it narrowed down. So far I am using Rustoleum Sunrise Red, Automotive (for acrylic enamel) reducer (medium), hardener, and mineral spirits. My mix consists of 4 parts paint, 3 parts reducer, 1 part mineral spirits, and 0.5 parts hardener. Yes that is 1/2 part hardener. I have also been painting with a foam brush, not a foam roller. The reason for the brush is because the item I am painting is literally 4 inches by 16 inches. Not very big so why use a roller.

What I have learned thus far. Rustoleum works very well with the above mentioned automotive reducer/hardener. When used in this combo the paint actually is stronger than when just mixed with mineral spirits. Wet sanding has become easier, it can be wet sanded sooner, and the paint dries completely in 4-5 hours.

I have also learned that you do not have to use the hardener until your final coats. This will save on supplies as well as the average 14 day open life of the hardener.

Right now I have put on the 4th coat (of this latest mixture) and the deep gloss shine is amazing. There are some minor brush strokes (very faint) that will easily wet sand out. Sorry my camera just can't zoom in as close as I would like. For some reason it makes the red look black. I personally like the TV reflection in the panel LoL.

Pictures:

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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by retired plumber on June 6th 2009, 10:18 am

That looks wonderful and its not sanded yet? Keep up the good work. I hope you are having good luck in your job hunting.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 6th 2009, 3:08 pm

Nope, it is not sanded yet. That is just dry paint that was brushed on. Thanks for the compliment Mike. Job hunting isn't going as well but that's life.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by Caramanos2000 on June 10th 2009, 3:25 pm

That looks great. Do I need to use a reducer in it? Could I use the standard 50/50 Paint/mineral spirits and just add the hardener?
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 10th 2009, 3:36 pm

You can just add hardener but the reducer is what really does the magic. You could do 50/50 paint and reducer then just add a little hardener. From what I have figured out, the reducer is well worth the money.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by Caramanos2000 on June 10th 2009, 4:42 pm

How does it act compared to the standard mix? Im into the begining of my project and have rolled on 2 coats 50/50 of flat white primer (rustoleum clean metal). I will try your mix because I like your results, im going with sunburst yellow. Do you think I will get more or less orange peel than with the standard mix? Thanks for the help man, this is what I have so far:

First attempt at bodywork ever


One coat of primer


Two coats of primer


I plan on wetsanding with 1000 grit before the fist coat of paint.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 10th 2009, 4:56 pm

At first you will get orange peel, but after 3 to 4 coats (wet sanding 1000 grit between coats) it starts to seriously level out. The reducer seems to not only help in drying time but retains more gloss than just paint and mineral spirits. That piece I have shown further up is on coat #5, and it literally is ready to be 2000 grit wet sanded (very lightly I might add) and then a quick polish and it will look perfect. Sure beats me doing 10 coats (same method of painting w/brush) to get similar results with just paint and mineral spirits. Then to top it off, the paint is harder = stronger and more durable. You can certainly do the 50/50 standard then do the last couple of coats my way. It doesn't have to be all the way through. It is very impressive that you can do this from start to finish or just to finish. I am currently working on a spare hood and I am getting the exact same results as I did with the little piece. 3rd coats is really starting to level out and gloss up. Will finish it and show all the pictures of the hood, then a comparison of my "test" hood vs. my factory painted hood. If I am right my "test" hood will look better.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by Caramanos2000 on June 10th 2009, 5:10 pm

Sweeet man, I figure if Im going to do it, might aswell do it all the way through. I can get the medium reducer locally and I can get valspar hardener is this kind ok? Currently when I slide my hand over the surface I cant feel any unevenness it just feels like regular sprayed primer. How much do you mix at a time?
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 10th 2009, 5:20 pm

I have never used Valspar Hardener so I do not know if it will mix. I say leave the hardener for the last couple of coats anyway. For my hood I mixed up little batches then made more as I needed it. I wanted to make sure my paint stayed mixed but I bet you could make up 4 cups of paint, 3 cups of reducer, and 1/2 cup mineral spirits or no mineral spirits and be fine. If covering the entire car. Just make it like you would (kind of like milk thickness) for your normal mix but in small batches till you get a feel for how much you will use. Don't be afraid to run out in the middle of a door or something, just mix up more and continue painting. I ran out on the hood, stopped, mixed up more, then continued painting and it dried just fine. Don't rush yourself and paint one section at a time. Like, finish the door before you move on to the fender kind of section painting.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by Caramanos2000 on June 10th 2009, 5:40 pm

Great, thanks for all the help. I will keep you posted, I hope to see your pics when your done Smile
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 10th 2009, 6:39 pm

I plan on having pics of the hood up soon. Just trying to get things finished up. Please do keep me posted on your work, I love to see other projects getting completed.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 10th 2009, 9:31 pm

Here are some finished pictures of my test panel. Took some outside pics but of course it was cloudy so sorry about that. This is final wet sanded and polished. The last pic is of it sitting on my unfinished test hood with the Sunkist can 6 inches away. Enjoy.



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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by Caramanos2000 on June 10th 2009, 10:05 pm

Is that all using the mix described above? I finished my final primer coat around 9pm and plan on waiting till noon tomorrow before wetsand is that enough time?
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 10th 2009, 10:13 pm

Yep that's just with my mix. You can even see the Sunkist reflection in the hood in the bottom picture. The hood is half wet sanded lol but the side the can is on isn't and its on its third coat there. Haha thats funny, I just noticed it.

Anyway, primer usually dries much fast than paint so waiting until noon tomorrow should be fine. Oh and meant to ask before, when you wet sand are you using a sanding block? I found using a sanding block works far superior to using your hand. It sands flat so you are actually leveling out the painted surface.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by Caramanos2000 on June 10th 2009, 10:36 pm

I hope I can get mine looking like yours. Im using a heavy 3M Rubber sanding block with 1000grit paper, some water and a little dishwashing soap. I meant to ask if I do all coats with your recipe and have a high gloss finish wont the next coat have problems adhering to the last?
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 10th 2009, 10:39 pm

The next coat adheres to the wet sanded surface. When you wet sand you are creating little scratch marks in the paint. These are what the paint molecules attach to. Good question.

If you take your time and don't get frustrated you will be fine. Oh and the 3M rubber sanding block is what I use, I just don't apply much pressure when sanding.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by Caramanos2000 on June 10th 2009, 10:40 pm

So with your recipe I should sand every coat rather than every other?
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 10th 2009, 10:46 pm

No matter what recipe I personally would sand between every coat. I am a firm believer in this and I feel that folks that don't do it are just asking for the paint to peel off. That is just me, I have yet to have paint peel when I follow this method.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 10th 2009, 10:47 pm

I know it is extra work, but I think it is totally worth the effort.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by Caramanos2000 on June 10th 2009, 10:52 pm

This is true, might aswell. Does that mean I need like 10 rolls of masking tape to remask the car after every time I sand? How many sheets of 1000 grit should I use when wetsanding the car? Here is the third and final coat of primer and my surface before sanding:


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Re: Rustoleum advice!

Post by MR2Miach on June 10th 2009, 11:06 pm

Looks really good! I would leave the tape on until it starts peeling off because of the water. I would say one sheet of 1000 grit should do at least 2 door panels, might even squeeze three out of it. Just make sure the sand paper stays as clean as possible and you will do fine. Remember not to apply a lot of pressure, let the sand paper do the work. Oh and sand with the grain. This is usually left to right, but like the hood it would be front bumper to back bumper, the trunk lid (if you have one) would be drivers side to passenger side. Roof is normally front bumper to back bumper.
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Re: Rustoleum advice!

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