Flat black Rustoleum help

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Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by eien on June 12th 2010, 3:39 pm

So I got everything pretty much prepped (sanding, got dings out, primer over bare metal areas) planning to spray my car on Monday. My brain is set on rusto flat black, I saw some really good results, so my mind won't get swayed to another color or another black. Anyway, I looked on various sites, including this one and in the end decided to finally ask some questions. Sorry there are so many.

I primed area's that got to the metal but for the most part, nothing else, should I primer the entire car and sand her down again before spraying? Being flat black, does the whole 3:1 ratio still apply? About how many coats should I spray down (using a HVLV spray btw)? About when should I spray down some flat/matte clear coat? I mustn't wet sand before applying the clear coat right? I am not sure which is best to choose from...



In the last pic, I am referring to the very left rusto one...
Are canned clear coat sprays good to use? Are there any non can flat clear coats from rusto? Should I go with another brand for clear coat? If any suggestions, please feel free to school this newbie, thanks much. Ah, I'll throw down pics if the car doesn't come out looking like complete crap lol.
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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by retired plumber on June 12th 2010, 5:26 pm

I'm a sprayer, not a roller so a question for you first. Have you ever done this before? The reason I ask is because there is a pretty good learning curve here. If not, you need to pratice on something a bit first. You can use your hood but expect to sand it down a couple of times Laughing .

Anyway, The 3 paint to 1 reducer should be about right. I do one light tack coat (dosen't competely cover), let tack and then do 3 wet full coats allowing tack time between and finish it off with a coat that is mostly thinner with enough color you can see it, maybe 4 thinner to 1 paint. This is misted on from about 2ft away. The thinking befind this is the extra thinner will help the last coat flow out better.

Any sanding HAS to be done before the last coat or it WILL BE SEEN. the final coat of flat (or semi gloss as it's called) can't be sanded. The unbroken finish is what gives it that flat sheen. Most here don't use clear because it makes spot repair harder to do because you have to do a whole panel then. They seem to be happy with their final outcome. Also, rusto dosen't make clear in quarts anymore and you would need quite a few spray cans to get any kind of a decent coat. You could use auto acrylic enamel clear coat if you want but that is expensive. I just bought a quart (with required hardner) and spent $48.00 on it for another project. I really don't think you need the clear tho because rusto is made for outside metal objects.

One last thing, you have to be careful with spraycans because most have laquer or E.M.K. and they react to enamel real bad and WILL lift them ruining the paint job. Ask me how I know Laughing , also some of them are water based like the American Accents, at least their bulk stuff is and we can't use that, well we could untill the first good rain lol.

Sorry about the book but this is not as easy as some think, you know, just slap on some paint, sand it down and buff and were good to go. With a little pratice, patience and luck almost everyone here has had a good experience. A couple have pulled their hair out and wanted to "blow the damm thing up" but we helped them and all was fine in the end. More ? or need help, we are as close as the 'puter.
Good luck and by the way, welcome.

Mike
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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by eien on June 12th 2010, 9:18 pm

No, this is the first time I ever painted a car and used a HVLV spray, so I have been practicing here and there on some spare pieces. I just decided to not trust myself as a super amateur and ask other folks their opinion instead. I did fool around with rolling, but I figured that ultimately spraying in general (especially a flat color) will turn out better looking (I hope...).

From what I read, without using a clear on flats things get rather ugly from the forces of nature, like for example; spots from rain. I am not exactly sure if it's true or not though. I am not sure about this because everything I painted flat black before was never left outside for prolonged times like my car would. I know rusto paint is pretty buff, but I am spooked about the future looks. If I do put a clear over, when should I take that step? After the paint is fully cured or just like another layer of paint, whatever odd minutes later?

Thanks for the advice and heads up about the spray cans having most laquer or EMK. And, no sweat, I really was happy to get so much advice and so quickly too thumbs up. I did after all say I was a newbie, so I really hoped for some thick advice, so thanks so much, Mike. The whole "prep" job so far gave me some valuable "learning experiences", so before I get an advanced painting learning experience, I would like to have some good knowledge from some nice folks so I don't have to "learn" so much on my own ahhh lol!. Actually from practicing, I messed around with an electrical sprayer and didn't get satisfying results, which is why I was moved to buy a HVLV sprayer. Anyway, thanks again dance .
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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by retired plumber on June 12th 2010, 10:13 pm

I have never sprayed flat paint so I can't comment on the "spotability" of it but I would assume that flat clear would act like any other flat paint. If you still want to try it, go ahead. I was just giving my opinion and its worth exactly what you paid for it. However I have been doing this as a hobby for over 40 years and have learned A LOT by my mistakes. lol.

Flat paint means different things to different people. A lot will take regular paint and sand it a bit to make it "flat". what this does is invade the integraty of the outer paint seal and allow stuff to become lodged in the sanding scratches and believe it or not, I have actually seen house paint on cars. What you really want is called "satin" paint. It has a chemical in that stops almost all reflection but has a smooth unbroken surface making it harder for things to stick to it. Water spots can also be caused by several things, among them are acid rain in smoggy areas, stuff in the dusty air in the southwest and no wax on the car.

Clear can be sprayed as soon as the last color coat tacks. Its just another coat but no color. Those electrical sprayers are ment for painting your fence type things.

As I try to tell people here, this is not rocket science, it is just paint. If you don't like the result just sand it off and redo. Your only out a few bucks and a couple of hours. If you expect a show car paint job for $50 you came to the wrong place. We did have a couple here that did get a paint trophy on their 57 chevy tho so It is possible.

Mike
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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by retired plumber on June 12th 2010, 10:26 pm

Check out this post. Its about a guy that did a toyota truck in satin black. He and I had guite a discussion about it . thought you might enjoy it. There are a couple of other posts by him about his truck if you want to look them up. http://rolledon.forummotion.com/projects-f2/81-toyota-old-school-longbed-mini-t193.htm.
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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by eien on June 12th 2010, 11:31 pm

Wow, Mike you are really on it, thanks!

I dunno if I am coming off like "meh", I just have a crap load of questions. Believe me I am taking your opinions and advice at heart, seriously, other wise I wouldn't be posting, so thanks a million.

Well, yeah I am not expecting a show car finish, I am doing this simply because I don't have much mula, my car was in dire need for a paint job, and I saw an old boxy Volvo one day that was flat black and I raged over it.

I live in LA county, bordering the OC, so it's pretty smoggy here. Other than pollution, how does flat colors hold out to bird dung? I will get use a car cover for this paint anyway, but birds and earthly elements are everywhere, so I am just wondering huh.

So, in theory, with a flat coat, scratches and what not will be easier to protect against rather than going commando? How well does satin hold up? Is satin easier to take care of versus flat? I had a looksy at the link you provided. The truck looked pretty nice but in some pics it had a shine, hmm. With the fear of the car eventually looking like complete crap I am thinking of satin instead... hrmmm. Out of curiosity, since satin isn't exactly matte, is it possible to wet sand the final coat and polish like many are doing to glossy paints? It's a dumb question but doesn't hurt to ask Embarassed.

Thanks again, Mike. You da man~! Cool

BTW, I am shooting for some what of this look...


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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by ghcoe on June 13th 2010, 12:13 pm

Yup, I am spraying my replacement hood with ACE Rust Stop satin black. Just finished my first coat and I have a BUGTRAGEDY. Did not want to spray in the direct sun, but looks like it will be the only way. First I have to wait for the coat to dry so I can sand those little buggers off.
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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by retired plumber on June 13th 2010, 8:11 pm

I don't care for satin/flat so I have never painted it and won't comment on how bird doo and things affect it. I do know that what most people call flat or matt is in reality satin paint or gloss paint that has had a flatting agent added.

Any satin paint will have a bit of a shine if the sun is reflecting off it just right because it has an unbroken surface. Thats the nature of the beast. If you want it to never shine then just paint it and sand with 400 grit. Even a surface sanded with 1500 grit paper will shine if looked at just right but then you have a rough surface and things will stick to it easier.

Even show cars with a satin finish (well drivers anyway) will brave the great outdoors and all mother nature can throw at them and they hold up. There is no such thing as a paint it and forget it paint job. they all need to be taken care of once in a while and I can tell you a unbroken surface is a whole lot easier to keep up then a broken (sanded) one. Just spray the car satin black without clear and be done with it. That way when you find dings, spots of bird doo, scratches, ect all you need to do to fix is sand and respray that spot.

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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by ghcoe on June 13th 2010, 10:24 pm

Bugs sanded off fine. I waited till the sun was hitting the hood and then painted again. I was surprised how easy it was. I figured the paint would dry too fast, but it laid down good. The hood is not quite dry in the pictures. You can still see some of the spray lines, but the longer it dries the less noticeable they are. I laid down 4 coats of paint. Two back to back, waited 1 hour and two more. I like the way it looks, but I am a little concerned about how durable it will be when washed, or hit with something. I will let it dry a couple of days before I start handling it again. George.

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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by retired plumber on June 13th 2010, 10:43 pm

Looks pretty good. I would have questioned the painting outside in direct sun tho. I have sprayed outside several times and tryed to have a high overcast day tho. It all depends on how hot the metal gets tho. If it feels really hot to my hand I won't spray because the paint will set before it will flow out and self level. With that said, I was talking about auto paint. Satin rusto might be different tho. I don't know because I have never sprayed that. You should be able to handle it in 8 hours.
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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by ghcoe on June 20th 2010, 11:39 am

I got the hood on the car. Looks much better.
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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by eien on July 23rd 2010, 3:13 am

ghcoe very nice job. how's it looking now with a bit time passing?

i ended up going with gloss white (pretty flat to me, which is hot) rather than flat black. it turned out rather sexy. it's my first time doing this and it was in the middle of some stupidly windy dry and hot time here in southern california, but i got it done. i had summer school and then my girlfriend came in town so i wasn't able to post up some pics. sadly i am not done with the clean up, i did spray some of the area's that mr. roller couldn't reach and a bit got on some areas that it shouldn't be on, but it easily scratches off... but like i said time wasn't around to do it so it's there still. i scratched my name in one area, gyuk hyuk tongue .

i like the result, 75 bucks (including sander), lots of sweat and time was way worth it over forking over money to some folks who would rape my wallet. it's not perfect but it looks good overall. i recommend this to folks who have a garage, because i don't (parents are pigs who hide their crap in areas that other folk don't venture off to) and it suuuucked. also if you have the extra money get a sprayer, they are about 120 bucks for a complete compressor with everything you need at-- ah god i forgot the name of the store at the moment, but let's just say "cheap tool place" for the time being. i actually bought a compressor etc, but returned it when i knew my girl would come down because our adventures would consume my BS money.

anyway these pics of the completed job. i do have the evolution of it but at the moment i can't up them. ah, and don't mind the mystery arm picture... it's my girlfriend's she just doesn't want her pics being put on the internet.



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Re: Flat black Rustoleum help

Post by ghcoe on July 23rd 2010, 6:02 am

Looks great!

eien, looks great!

My paint is holding up well. I think it looks even better now that it has a chance to dry and weather a bit. I just washed it for the first time last week and it held up fine. There was even a couple of spots that the birds found and I let it sit there till I washed it (about a week). Washed right off and no detectable damage. I did try to wax a small spot and it looks fine so I will go ahead and wax the whole hood next wash.
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