67 Camaro - Black on Black

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67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 15th 2010, 4:10 am

Hey, I've been studying this roll on paint method for several weeks now. Been through all of this forum and read several other sites (including the entire mopar thread) and have decided that my Camaro is going to get rolled with high gloss black Tremclad. I'm going to start stripping the car down tomorrow and probably start a test area on the trunk lid. I purchased the rollers, sandpaper, sander, and primer today and was hoping to get some advice on the primer. None of my local stores carry any Rustoleum auto primer so I purchased a grey Tremclad oil-based rust primer instead (see picture below). I'm wondering if anyone has any idea if this primer will suffice? I plan to do several diluted (with MS) thin coats but don't want to open the can it if it's rejected here.

Please note that I don't post all of the pictures that I take. However I do post them all on my Google Picture Album. I usually put captions on those pics as well. I'll try to post the best ones here. Also note that these and all my others can be viewed in a higher resolution on the Google site.

Throughout the whole process I will be open to all suggestions and comments... please fire away!




(The above image is my car but from an extremly flattering angle and with just the right amount of sunlight.
Her paint is cracked real bad and will need some decent bodywork I'm sure.)

Ian


Last edited by Ian67 on July 17th 2010, 4:29 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Techmaven on July 15th 2010, 3:35 pm

I would never thin a primer coat if you are going to roll it on. The primer you show should be used as a spot primer over bodywork and bare metal areas. I would also look into a high build primer to apply over the whole car so you have a thick enough surface to block down flat without going through giving you a nice even surface to paint over.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on July 15th 2010, 5:54 pm

I thinned my primer 25% before application. It flowed out smoothly, and made a great base for the following color coats.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by T.Hadley on July 15th 2010, 10:44 pm

I used Rustoleum high build primer, had to order it from home depot, I used it because the car was black and wanted it flat, I roiled it on with no thinning, sanded most of it back off but that's what its for...

The Rustoleum site says not to use rusty metal primer on clean metal,, but I can't remember why?
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 15th 2010, 10:57 pm

Hey.. I appreciate all the feedback! I called Home Depot today and they can't ship me the Rustoleum high build Primer Surfacer due to some kind of chemical property regulation border garbage... being in Canada can have its drawbacks.

I've focused my reading on priming and have decided that the primer I bought will due fine as I can always just do an extra coat (or two) if I have to. I have nothing but time as it's not my daily driver. I like this primer too as it is a good match with the gloss black Tremclad paint that I'll be purchasing (as soon as Home Depot gets more in).

I spent most of my day today on dash wiring and didn't get around to stripping the car. I have all of the dash stored on the trunk lid and need to finish with that just so I can get to the trunk lid to start a test patch. I'll keep you posted and post an annoying amount of pictures Wink

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by T.Hadley on July 16th 2010, 12:23 am

We like an annoying amount of pictures around here...


T.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 16th 2010, 11:46 pm

Well I made some progress today. Managed to buy the paint I wanted in a can and a spray bomb. I also bought a 3M Paint and Rust Stripper to tear out all the cracks and rust spots on my paint and then I cleaned it and rolled the fist coat of primer on the trunk lid. I'm going to use the trunk lid as a test panel to make sure I get the mixes all right and get a good result before I dive into the rest of the car. Before I start with the pictures, be aware that I post ALL my pictures on my Google Picture Site HERE.



(This is the paint that I bought. It is a perfect match for the Tremclad Primer that I posted about earlier. The 3M Stripper did a good job of everything except it makes a big mess. It goes on a drill and does a great job of ripping the paint off. I was happy with the results as the synthetic material didn't have much effect on the bare metal. I was going to grab a grinder style sandpaper flap disc but from what I read they tend to gouge bare metal easily. The 3M Stripper may, or may not be as effective as a 60 grit flap disc but it is safer for someone with little or no experience like me)



(The trunk lid witht the spoiler removed. The lid had 8 or so holes on it to mount the spoiler but the jerk who mounted it only used 5 of them. It explains why my trunk was leaking so bad in the rain)



(This is proably the worst of the VISIBLE damage to my car. My 3M Stripper made short work of it. The only good thing about this kind of paint issue that it makes it clear that I am going to be hitting bare metal in these areas for sure. Knowing that, I'm mentally prepared to sand the rest of the car down to the factory paint or even to bare metal if required. This also prepares me to prime the whole care and block and then re-prime before applying the paint. It's going to make a lot more work than a typical scuff and paint but I know it will be worth it in the long run)



(This is after the Stripper, orbital sander with 60 and 120 grit and then the mouse sander with 220 grit.
I finished up with some wax and grease remover and a light water rinse... She is ready for primer!)

EDIT: I should have spent more time with the 60 grit on the orbital. Once i put the primer on I could see a lot of ridges that weren't showing up for me earlier. You really want to look and feel the surface before you paint/primer. If you think your rushing it or you should sand one more time... you should slow down and listen to your own advice.




(The first coat of primer was rolled on and it's looking good. I didn't thin the primer at all and it dried smooth with no fish eyes or orange peel. There are still a bunch of
big scratches and ridges but after a few more coats of primer and some blocking it should sand down nice and smooth)

Ian


Last edited by Ian67 on July 23rd 2010, 11:24 am; edited 4 times in total
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by retired plumber on July 17th 2010, 12:11 am

Yes, an annoying amount of pictures, yes please.lol Just take a look at T.Hadley's project............. Just kidding T. you know I just had to say that.

I agree about thick primer and having the ability to sand most off. Body work well covered in sandable primer (and sanded well) is 90% of the paint job. If you think you can see anything before color, you WILL see it after, especially with gloss black.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 17th 2010, 1:15 am

Well I just went out and rolled out a 2nd coat of primer. I made it slightly thicker this time but I would still consider it fairly thin. It seems to level out well but I think it's still going to need one more good coat before I sand it down. I'll probably do it first thing in the morning and then block it either late tomorrow afternoon or the next night.

I didn't take any pictures of this coat as it looked like the first coat. I'll take some more during the block sanding process.

Ian

p.s. T.Hadley's project pictures are what inspired me to get my butt in gear to get my project started. I would love to see some more pics of his car... more more more.. I'm a picture fanatic!


Last edited by Ian67 on July 17th 2010, 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by T.Hadley on July 17th 2010, 12:11 pm

If you are trying to fill scratch's that are deep, try just priming those areas right out of the can, sand and re-apply if necessary, then when smooth re-prime the whole thing.


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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 17th 2010, 12:29 pm

T.Hadley wrote:If you are trying to fill scratch's that are deep, try just priming those areas right out of the can, sand and re-apply if necessary, then when smooth re-prime the whole thing.
That sounds smart and like a more effective use of primer. Now that I have two coats on the whole thing I think i'll make my 3rd coat targeted on any of the remaining visible scratches. I appreciate the tip! I've done lots of smaller projects on this car but overall this is my first full paint job so I only know what I've read/seen online.

I just went out and applied the 3rd and final coat of primer to the lid. I put the final coat on much thicker than the first 2. I'm going to let it set for at least a day or two before I block sand it. I think between sanding and painting I will probably remove the trim, bumpers, chrome etc.


(this is after the 3rd coat of primer had about 10 hours of dry time. It's not tacky but I can tell
by the texture that it's going to need the full 24 hours to cure. You can see that the primer is
smooth but unfortunately it has various ridges where the factory paint edges were. I'm sure that
when I block sand it will be nice and flat but I didn't really want to do 3 coats of primer on the entire
car. I'm going to have to be more thorough on all future sanding)

Also I just wanted everyone to know that I love this board. I've read almost everything except a few of the projects. Even the New Members section has some interesting posts. It's like going to school to learn something that actually gets used in the real world!

Ian
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 19th 2010, 12:52 am

Well I felt energetic tonight so I decided to see if I could block the trunk lid and get a first coat of paint on it but I ran into an issue...


I tried 150, 220, 60 and 320 grit sandpaper and no matter what I did it clogged. I sat there picking clumps of primer out of my paper until I eventually gave up as I was just rubbing grooves into the lid. I'm confused as the primer has had about 40 hours to dry and I started with a high grit. I don't feel that I was pressing too hard. I even tried wet sanding it and it wasn't really helping. Was the primer just not dry all the way through yet? Is this Tremclad oil based rust primer not sandable?

Any suggestions would be very welcome

Thanks

p.s. I went back outside about an hour after I left the garage in frustration and felt the primer.. seemed a little soft to me. Hard to say for sure but I think the primer isn't fully cured yet. Could just be because I tried to wet sand it earlier though. However I don't think the paper was clogging when I started so that means that once I got mid-way it started clogging because it was still wet. All just a theory but tomorrow night I will try again with fresh paper and if it doesn't clog at first then I'll know.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Squire Cobra Jet on July 19th 2010, 2:19 am

If it was not thinned, it would not surprise me that it is not fully dried yet.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by T.Hadley on July 19th 2010, 1:17 pm

I would guess to many coats to soon, try putting your trunk lid out in the sun all day then try again, you should be able to dry block it with 220, then just before paint wet sand with 400.

Or maybe that primer is not sandable ?

You should also pick up some of these sanding blocks.

Motor Guard, Soft Sanding Blocks



The block you show works good on real flat panels but most cars, are like a big girl they have curves... so the soft blocks help a lot on curved surfaces
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 20th 2010, 4:44 pm

I went out last night and sanded some more and it eventually started clogging again and then I started again today and after 10 minutes it clogged again. It seems that I'm chasing the cure time on this primer. I wanted to be sure so I called Rustoleum Canada and they said that without a doubt the primer I'm using is sandable. She recommended that because the temerature is 25-30 (80-90f) and the humidity is so high I will need to leave it at least another day or two with the garage door open as much as possible. I see the logic but I'm disapointed that this primer is going to take so long to dry. I'm going to have to do fewer and thinner coats or look into a primer that dries quicker. Just a note, the dry time so far for my 3 coats of primer is around 4 days. I've wasted about 4 full sheets of sand paper so far Sad but I'm about 85% done sanding it. Smile

Oh yes and I'll be sure to pick up some of those flexible blocks. I have one foam block but it is for smaller projects. I figured the hard flat one I have would be ok for the trunk lid as it's fairly flat. I guess I'll jump back in on Thursday. Can't wait to get some paint on it!

Ian

ps. If anyone had any wonder, this is the ideal final look for my car.... even half this nice.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on July 20th 2010, 7:20 pm

I used the primer too, and I thinned it 25% thinner, 75% primer. It dried within a day, similar temps and humidity to you. I was using Rustoleum though.

By the way, I used wet sandpaper and water. No clogging that way, and a lot less dust!

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by mapexgurl on July 20th 2010, 7:40 pm

That is a really great project. For stripping paint, I started with the 3M stripper like you have for drills. Later I ended up getting a cheap angle grinder and using these...

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xno/R-100553289/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


It works a lot quicker for larger areas.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 20th 2010, 9:13 pm

ohhhh where do you get those? I have a grinder and the only thing I could find was those sandpaper flap disks. I would have bought your product if Canadian Tire sold it. Norton is sold at Home Depot but It doesn't look like they sell them in their in Canada. I'll have to look around.

Thanks for the suggestion!
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by 63Falconconvert on July 21st 2010, 8:12 am

Welcome from NY....great first generation Camaro! Where about in Canada are you?
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 21st 2010, 9:07 am

63Falconconvert wrote:Welcome from NY....great first generation Camaro! Where about in Canada are you?
Thanks Falcon! I'm in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia. You know the area?
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by 63Falconconvert on July 21st 2010, 9:58 am

not really. We are about 60 miles east of Niagara Falls Canada.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 23rd 2010, 1:00 am

I can tell you one thing... the primer sure does sand down easier when you let it completely dry. Mind you it took 5 days, but it did eventually work out.

I blocked it with 220 dry grit first and then moved up to 400 wet grit (with a new 3M Soft WetorDry Sanding Pad). It was my first time ever wet sanding and I think it went quite well. I spent quite a bit of time with the 400 grit as I wanted to make sure all the 220 scratches were gone.

Then I rolled out the first coat of Tremclad gloss black. I saturated the roller and then removed the excess of the 60% paint 40% mineral spirits mix. I rolled it one by starting in the middle of the lid and then working the paint towards the outside edges. I then waited about 10 minutes and re-rolled it with the same roller using only the weight of the roller. I found that about 95% of the bubbles popped within the first 30 seconds and I was able to get pretty much all of them on the second pass.

The following pictures are of coat #1 about 2 minutes after I finished rolling on the first pass. You can really see how reflective the paint is even this early on and just how well it levels out. You can see bubbles still but they cleared up well after the second pass over.


(First coat... quite transparent still but went on smooth)


(First coat... You can really see how well the paint self-levels... no real obvious roller marks to be seen)


(First coat... Good reflection of the red paint can and blue tarp on a shelf above the car)


(First coat... My reflection... all those little bubbles were rolled out a few minutes later)
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 24th 2010, 12:12 am

Wiped the trunk lid down with mineral spirits and rolled on the second coat. The whole thing got a little darker and looks a little shinier. I didn't notice any orange peel after the first coat.


(Second coat... The coverage is a lot better and the reflection seems just a little bit crisper)


(Second coat... I'm happy about how much darker it is. I may have used slightly less paint on this coat)
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on July 24th 2010, 12:35 am

I would suggest you wipe it down with denatured alcohol instead of mineral spirits. Mineral spirits can soften the not fully cured paint and extend drying times, plus cause finish quality issues.

Looking good though!

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 24th 2010, 12:43 am

JimVonBaden wrote:I would suggest you wipe it down with denatured alcohol instead of mineral spirits. Mineral spirits can soften the not fully cured paint and extend drying times, plus cause finish quality issues.
Yeah I thought I read that somewhere but really wanted to get the 2nd coat on. I'm going to have a shelf full of solvents soon. I already have a plastic wax and grease remover and a metal wax and grease remover but no straight denatured alcohol. I will have to pick some up tomorrow to use before my 3rd coat. Thanks for the tip!

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

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