67 Camaro - Black on Black

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by burakol on June 8th 2013, 1:05 pm

great work! did i read it right, you rolled on the rustoleum primer (not the auto one, but the rusty metal primer)? im planning on doing the same but I have yet to start the body work...
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on June 8th 2013, 2:29 pm

burakol wrote:great work! did i read it right, you rolled on the rustoleum primer (not the auto one, but the rusty metal primer)? im planning on doing the same but I have yet to start the body work...
Thanks! I have only rolled Tremclad products on my car. I rolled a grey Tremclad oil based primer (says it goes on any surface, including rust, with minimal preperation) and the matching black Tremclad oil based paint. From what I've read, Tremclad is just the Canadian name for Rustoleum as they are the same company. The Rustoleum Filler Primer I bought is currently for sale here and on my local craigslist.

Still hoping someone has an answer to the questions at the end of my previous post :-)

Ian
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by 74 Elco on June 9th 2013, 4:25 pm

but will filler on top of paint be an adhesion issue?

In my experience, filler acts like a sponge.. a very thirsty sponge. If you paint over the panel without first priming the filler, you'll still see the filled area until many coats have been applied. I think its best to put one or two coats of primer over the filler, and then you'll get by needing far less coats of paint.

As far as using your sanding foam pads for wetsanding, I have no experience with them. I always just by regular sandpaper sheets and use a rubber sanding pad holder thingy, and if I'm trying to wetsand a curved area I'll do it very gently by hand, trying to avoid unnecessarily putting in waves in the body/paint work.

Good luck with your camaro, I'm in the middle of a big project too I know it can get old and you can lose enthusiasm!
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by burakol on June 9th 2013, 6:12 pm

Ian67 wrote:
burakol wrote:great work! did i read it right, you rolled on the rustoleum primer (not the auto one, but the rusty metal primer)? im planning on doing the same but I have yet to start the body work...
Thanks! I have only rolled Tremclad products on my car. I rolled a grey Tremclad oil based primer (says it goes on any surface, including rust, with minimal preperation) and the matching black Tremclad oil based paint. From what I've read, Tremclad is just the Canadian name for Rustoleum as they are the same company. The Rustoleum Filler Primer I bought is currently for sale here and on my local craigslist.

Still hoping someone has an answer to the questions at the end of my previous post :-)

Ian

Did you thin the primer at all? What was the ratio?
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on June 9th 2013, 8:18 pm

burakol wrote:
Ian67 wrote:
burakol wrote:great work! did i read it right, you rolled on the rustoleum primer (not the auto one, but the rusty metal primer)? im planning on doing the same but I have yet to start the body work...
Thanks! I have only rolled Tremclad products on my car. I rolled a grey Tremclad oil based primer (says it goes on any surface, including rust, with minimal preperation) and the matching black Tremclad oil based paint. From what I've read, Tremclad is just the Canadian name for Rustoleum as they are the same company. The Rustoleum Filler Primer I bought is currently for sale here and on my local craigslist.

Still hoping someone has an answer to the questions at the end of my previous post :-)

Iatn

Did you thin the primer at all? What was the ratio?
I have never thinned the primer. I don't think there is much to gain from thinning primer.

Ian
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Tommy Hillbilly on June 9th 2013, 11:14 pm

That's looking good, I like where this is going. Black is one of my favorite colors for one of those cars.
Ian67 wrote:

Coat #1 - Looks like a dent in the door... it isn't. I used a small foam wedge brush to do the drip rails and other tight spaces.
I thought it was a magnetic bottle opener stuck on a refrigerator door, but it looked not tall enough.



Coat #2 - This side of the car looks mangled, but it's just reflections playing tricks. The spoiler is off to the side but I've forgotten to snap pictures of it.
Whatever that dark-on-white reflection is, it's a lot clearer. It looks more like what I guessed it was before...


Coat #2 - Great covereage here but check out that orange peel. Good thing the 400g wet sanding is coming next.
You might be able to get away with a higher grit?



So, If I decide to fix any small dings or low spots, should I just sand the spot with 220g, apply filler, sand the filler smooth, and start Coat #1 & #2 in that spot? I'm not against putting paint right on filler at this point, but will filler on top of paint be an adhesion issue?
Might be, and sometimes bare filler can show through, requiring more coats. I would go ahead and use some primer.

Plus, my last question, do I just use the small wetORdry sponge block to wet sand now, or do I want a bigger one?

Ian
My instinct is to go with as long a block as possible. I haven't gotten around to testing this on my wavy car yet, but I plan to within a couple of years, once I put on new brakes, shocks and struts, and motor mounts, and get her more mechanically sound.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on June 9th 2013, 11:53 pm

Wicked replies, thank you! It's the handle on the side of a portable oil space heater. I do have a metallic bottle opener, but it's not visible in any of the shots.

I will probably stick with 400g for at least the first sand, maybe even the second depending on how much I fix. I'll sand any low spots back down to metal or primer, and fill it, then prime it. I'll just have to buy more primer... Maybe just a quart as I won't need much. Like you guys said, better to paint over primer then filler.

I didn't have any troubles with wavyness when I did the trunk lid, and now I'm concerned about the doors and whatnot. The soft foam sanding block worked wonders on the lid, but will the same process cause waves on these larger panels? Either way, I guess I'll use the long block on the flatter, large areas and the small flexible one for the narrow and curved spots.

I'll be wet sanding within the next few hours. I expect a lot of primer and metal to be showing by the time I'm done, just like with the lid. Plus I'm sure I've got at least 4-5 spots to fix. The black on there now is like a fancy 2nd guide coat. I'll have to take some more pictures in the daylight tomorrow.

Ian

UPDATE: I rolled from midnight till 320am and might be just half way done wet sanding with 400g. I knew it was going to be slow, but it may end up taking 6 hours to get this thing smooth. I suppose the first one, if done to perfection will be the most time consuming as the rest will have a smooth base to go on. I probably won't do pics until it's all wet sanded and ready for paint again.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on June 11th 2013, 7:41 pm

Here is the progress so far.. She's fighting me the whole way but she will be smooth..


I haven't cleaned it off but u can see what's been done.


Lots of white showing through bit what you see is smooth... Except...


This spot on the roof that I could see once the black paint was on.


Hopefully I can get the rest done over the weekend.

Ian

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by cac1967 on June 12th 2013, 6:46 pm

Lookin good Ian!!! keep at it man, your car is gonna look great!!!! like it was said before black will show everything as far as wave's in panel's, and bad body work, DON'T ASK HOW I KNOW!!! I have had a couple over the year's that looked like a sack full of marble's!!!! thankfully I learned my lesson's from my mistake's!!!thumbs up
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on June 23rd 2013, 4:02 am

Took what seemed like forever to get the car through the initial wet sand. That being said, she wasn't t nearly smooth enough for paint. However, she is 400g smooth now with the exception of 4-5 smallish spots. The most obvious spot is still the roof dent, but I've got a wavy front driver side header and a few little dings here and there that I don't like. Other than that I'm pretty happy with it. I just finished the wet sanding around 0030 hours, so the pictures are dark, but you can see how much I sanded down to make it smooth. The car has not been cleaned yet either. At least the sanding from now on won't be as tedious. hope


Some spots to fill but well on the way to paint again. 

Ian
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 4th 2013, 4:25 pm

Took a little while but I managed to clean, apply filler to the bad spots, sand with 150g, sand with 400g wet, clean and spray Tremclad oil-based primer (spray version of the primer I rolled). Pics below:


Applied filler to the low spot on the roof.


Applied filler around the antenna hole. The metal was dimpled around the hole. The antenna base might have covered it but I didn't want to know it was there.


Applied filler to the header panel as it was all kinds of warped.


Applied filler to the driver side sail panel area. Actually had to do this twice as after I sanded it, it needed a little more.


Sanded the roof smooth and sprayed the primer.


The header panel after sanding and priming.


The passenger door and antenna hole. The door had a couple minor dings that I didn't enjoy.


Another shot of the header panel.


The driver side sail panel after sanding and primer. This was the most time consuming part, but the final product is excellent.


Even though my camera was freaking out, you can see that I did some more work on the back window quarter seams and the upper trunk panel.

It was amazing how much better I could see the faults after the gloss black went on. I expected it as I remembered how it happened when I did the trunk lid. I'm glad that I used the guide coat earlier on as I'm sure it helped eliminate a lot of the issues I would have ran into at this point. The spots in primer now look fantastic, but the real test will be after I went sand them and give them a coat of black.

Next update will have pics of the primer sanded, pre-paint cleaning and black coats 3-4 rolled on.

Ian
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Tommy Hillbilly on July 4th 2013, 10:51 pm

Good job, now's the time to address those things. But don't be surprised if you catch some more later on...

A good way to check is to lay on your back, next to the car, and look UP the sides of the car, rather than down on them or level with them.

I've often noticed flaws on cars, when they were up on a lift, and I was looking up their sides...
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on August 2nd 2013, 7:18 pm

Just finished rolling coat #4. With all the sanding I did after coat #2, it doesn't seem like I've made a lot of progress. That being said, I've managed to fix most of the bigger issues and learned to live with some of the smaller ones. Here are some pics of coats 3-4.


Coat #3 - Passenger sail panel area. Obviously not full coverage as you can see the primer and previous coat underneath.


Coat #3 - Coverage looks good from here but the orange peel is also evident.


Coat #3 - A nasty dent on this front quarter and the sail/roof were fixed and are very smooth now.


Coat #4 - Too bad I had to use my phones camera for this as it added distortion, making it look a lot worse than it is. The peel is worse than on Coat #3 but the reflection is much improved. I don't think you can see the primer anymore.


Coat #4 - Camera added a haze, but the paint looks darker and better overall.


Coat #4 - The images were just too poor to post. However, I liked this one so I put it up. This Tremclad black is blacker than my worst enemies soul. If black is what you want, this Tremclad Gloss black will get the job done.

In two days or so I'll whip out the 600g and start sanding. I was going to do 400g again but it looks pretty good now, and if I delay the progression any longer, I'll end up doing 20 coats of paint or something ridiculous. I'll probably do coats 5-6 then 800g, 1000g, 1500g and then a final sand with 2000g before I cut/polish.

I think I'm going to go on a posting hiatus and do another 4 coats or so. I'll update once I get to the 1000g stage. I'll be taking dozens of pictures along the way, I just don't have the time to update this as often as I'd like.

Ian



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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Prospector on August 5th 2013, 10:03 am

This Tremclad black is blacker than my worst enemies soul. If black is what you want, this Tremclad Gloss black will get the job done.

Outstanding line! Creative writing is in your future! Good job on the car, too!
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by 63Falconconvert on August 8th 2013, 1:33 pm

Looking really good!
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by VeggieBullet on August 8th 2013, 8:42 pm

Wow...what an amazing job!
Just wondering how long do you wait between coat 1&2 and 3&4? Also how long do you let it "cure" before sanding?
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by maximus7001 on October 19th 2013, 3:17 am

Any progress lately?
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on November 4th 2013, 3:12 am

VeggieBullet wrote:Wow...what an amazing job!
Just wondering how long do you wait between coat 1&2 and 3&4? Also how long do you let it "cure" before sanding?
After the first coat I usually wait about 24 hours. After the second coat I wait at least 4-5 days before I start sanding. Even at 4-5 days I have had some issues with clogging sandpaper due to it being wet still. I'm not it sure if it's a Trembled drying thing but it seems like the rustoleum users don't need to wait this long. Temperature in my garage averages 20c so it's not because it's cold, and I dilute it near 50/50.

As for progress, yes and no. I've been sanding with 600g paper for a while now as it turns out I did a crappy job early on and am paying for it now. Should have a fresh coat of paint on it by tomorrow afternoon. Then another on Wednesday. I'll post some pics after that.

Ian
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on January 20th 2014, 2:08 am

Finally have some progress to report. Well, progress in some areas and two steps back and one step forward in others. Since the last post, I finished sanding the car with 600 grit and applied 2 coats and then took a video (posted below). The video shows what the car looks like after a solid 600g sand, but also highlights some disappointment with the hood and driver side door. It seemed like I was battling those parts from the very beginning. I have since sanded with 800g, applied 2 more coats and sanded with 1000g.

Everything looked great after 1000g, except the driver door and hood. I decided to stop delaying the inevitable so I applied Gray Tremclad Primer (spray bomb) to the door and hood, and applied some black guide coat. I was able to easily identify the 10-15 low/high spots on the door and the 5-10 on the hood. I banged them out the best I could, filled them, re-applied primer and guide coat and smoothed them with 220g. Just tonight I finished rolling a 2nd coat of Gray Tremclad primer over both the door and hood. I sprayed the first time for speed and because I knew most of it was coming off. I rolled just now because it goes on thicker and evenly. It looks fantastic as it is, and I have no excuse as to why I didn't do it in the first place.

If you've been following my work since day one, you'll remember my work on the trunk lid. I thought I did a pretty good job on it, which is obviously what spawned the idea to do the whole car. I pulled it out of storage the other day, and decided it would be smart to attach it to the car and sand it with 1000-2000g and give it a few more coats. I think this will allow for a consistent black-ness throughout the whole car. The interesting thing is, after a few passes with the 1000g I can see a ton of defects, all caused by poor original sanding. So, not only will the trunk lid get some more attention, but it shows that, even with some defects, it looked great. The car (minus the hood and door) looks significantly better than the trunk lid did after 1000g, and sanded easier too, so I'm happy with the idea that the car will end up looking better than the trunk lid did.

Anyway, I have more rambling to do, and pics to show... so lets get on with it...



Unfortunately the video cuts off right as I get into the engine stuff, but I guess it keeps it on topic for this forum. As I mentioned above, I've done quite a bit since the video, but it gives you an idea of what a few coats of paint looked like on the Camaro. Video made on November 9 2013.



The hood is laser straight now at 220g. Will be guide coating it again and hitting it with 400g. Will paint and do 800g after, then 1000g a couple times, then I'll stop and see where it's at. Picture taken January 19 2014.



The door is the same as the hood. Actually, the door was a lot worse than the hood, but it's super straight now. It'll get the same treatment as the hood from here on out. Picture taken January 19 2014.



The trunk lid, after a little 1000g. Ignore the lower left edge as it was never smoothed and is quite bumpy. Doesn't really matter as the spoiler goes there and the spoiler looks good. Even after two worn out 1000g papers, you can see how much more work is needed. It will end up looking as good as the rest of the car, but it suprises me how poor of a job I did versus how good it looked polished... apparently you can polish a turd. Picture taken January 19 2014.

To end this on a positive note, I went out and bought some... which I will use through the rest of the painting. I've read so much positive about it, I couldn't resist anymore. I've had to sand so much already, I'm hoping this cuts it down a bit.

I'm hitting it pretty hard these days so maybe some big updates in the next few weeks.

Ian
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by cac1967 on January 21st 2014, 5:24 pm

lookin great Ian keep at it man!!!! haven't been on in a long while but your progress is great!!!! thumbs up 
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on February 10th 2014, 1:23 am

I finished sanding the hood and driver side door with 400g, and the rest of the car with 1000g. Put 2 coats of paint and it looks pretty good. Mostly because of the Penetrol/MS/Paint mix. 3 parts paint, 2 parts Penetrol and 1 part MS is what I used. It was much thicker and went on very dark and a little  rougher, but after an hour or so it smoothed out to near perfection. Even the hood and door smoothed enough to hide the 400g scratches. Pics and video below.



Driver side door before paint. Even after 2 coats of primer, you can see the high spots showing through.



The picture is grainy as I used my cell phone in poor light, but you get an idea of how far I went to make it smooth. All but the hood is to 1000g.



Front of the car after 2 coats of the paint mix...



Back of the car after 2 coats of paint. Don't mind the white out.



If a picture is worth a 1000 words, then what is a video worth? Video taken Feb 6 2014. Pretty good show of the current coats and expected outcome.

I'll be sanding the whole car again with 1000g now. Then 2 more coats. Then sand with 2000g. Then 2 more coats. I'll evaluate the coverage at that point and decide if I need to sand/paint again, or if I can get away with waiting a month to do a final 2000g sand.

Let me know what you think.

Ian
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by rmdhokie on February 11th 2014, 9:17 pm

Well on your way to a superb paint job. I also used Penetrol as well and was very satisfied with results. Admire your persistence in getting a black paint job right.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on February 19th 2014, 9:09 pm

It's coming along. Sanded the whole thing (spoiler mounted and now included in all steps) with 1000g. Had to correct a warped body line on the passenger side door, but other than that it looks pretty good.

Painted 2 more coats of paint with the Penetrol/MS combo. The second coat dried with a few roller lines and some orange peel, but still looks good IMO. My phone takes crappy pictures as it seems to add a grey grain to it, taking away from the dark black you see in person. The wife is going to bring the expensive DSLR out when it's all done.


All sanded... again.. you can see where the body line warped as it's white there now.



Nice and black with about 97% coverage. Just a couple faint white spots showing through on the hood. Other than that, it's pitch black.



The spoiler is mounted and really gives the car the sporty look it deserves. It will probably get 1000g instead of 2000g for the next sand as it's still a bit rough and I don't feel like muscling it smooth.



Some dust on the hood, but overall it looks good. I can't wait to take those bags out of the windows.
I called my tint and glass guys (people who I have never used, but want to think they have given me a good enough deal to call my "guys") today to make arrangements. Looks like tint will be done to the existing rear glass early next week and the windshield in 2 weeks or so. It's coming along nicely. I went out and bought some hog ring pliers today to start on the interior upholstery too, which isn't related to paint but its still part of the project. Stay tuned...

IaN
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by maximus7001 on March 3rd 2014, 4:40 am

Can't wait to see your final result I will have to do a paint job like this after getting $2500+ quotes for my 68 Javelin here in Canada.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Noah Zarq on March 22nd 2014, 8:32 pm

That's looking great!
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

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