67 Camaro - Black on Black

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 25th 2010, 11:41 pm

Here is the 3rd coat... seems like the lid darkened quite a bit and coverage is improving. I do however notice a few dips and scratches that I didn't notice before. I have a feeling that my initial thoughts were correct that I didn't block sand good enough after the primer. It still looks good but I'm not sure I'll be happy with it when I'm done. You think I'd be better off to wet sand it till it's smooth and maybe go through a few layers now? Or build up my base coat a bit more and then sand it down? I've got some orange peel on this coat where I didn't have any on the first two. These pics don't show the dips but give you an idea of my 3rd coat progress.






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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by T.Hadley on July 26th 2010, 1:47 am

If there are imperfections in the finish, sand them out now, even if it means going all the way back to the primer, with black its all about the prep before the paint, and I really recommend getting some penetrol you can mix the paint a little thicker and have no orange peel.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by retired plumber on July 26th 2010, 12:45 pm

What T said. If you arn't really happy with it now, you for sure won't like the finished job, especially with black.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 26th 2010, 11:39 pm

I have a bad feeling that it was my post primer sanding thats the issue. You think I should just wet sand with 400 through the 2-3 coats of paint or do you think I could get away with dry sanding with 220 grit? I don't want to go too low but at the same time I don't have any wet paper below 400 grit.

Thanks!

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on July 26th 2010, 11:40 pm

Wet sand, it leaves less sanding marks in general, works faster without clogging the paper, and you can use a finer grit. I would go no less than 400 wet.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 26th 2010, 11:45 pm

Wow.. fast reply. I might wait until tomorrow night to wet sand it down then. I would do it tonight but after my impatient results with the primer I would rather give it the required time. I blame all of my issues on my desire to get it done in a rush. I really have no reason (other than pure excitement) to get it done quickly but I tried blocking with the hard plastic block when I should have gone with T's suggestion of getting the flexible sanding block from the very beginning. I have one now and it worked great for the wet sanding. Had I got it earlier and sanded with it prior to the first coat of paint I probably would have gotten it nice and straight. Ahh well.. won't be making these mistakes on the rest of the car thats for sure.

Thanks again,

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 28th 2010, 7:25 pm

I went to work on it today for about 3 hours... Wet sanded it with 400 grit using the flexible sanding block and she looks and feels as smooth as glass. Finally re-ready for a first coat of paint. I'm waiting until tomorrow to clean it and put the first coat back on.


(You can really see the high and low spots now. It didn't look as bad as it shows here but I bet it would have gotten worse and worse as I put the paint on. I didn't put a lot of effort into the bottom (left side) of the lid as the spoiler covers that part anyway)



(Good anlge here as you can see that it really is nice and smooth. It's 10x better than it was before as even my primer has a reflection now)
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on July 28th 2010, 7:37 pm

Looks like a great place to start!

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by T.Hadley on July 28th 2010, 10:59 pm

Much better, it should look great.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by 63Falconconvert on July 29th 2010, 8:08 am

looks good....I think you will be happier with this coat

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 29th 2010, 7:45 pm

I'm definitly happier this time around. I definitely did a rush job but I've turned it around and used a new roller to put the first coat back on. The coverage wasn't quite as good but it was expected as I used more of a 50/50 paint/MS mix. I didn't splurge for the pentrol as the wife is already wondering how this "$50 paint job" has costed us over double that (extra sanding supplies, solvents, paint stripper wheel etc.) Laughing


(The new first coat. Nice and thin but it is very very smooth and is showing better quality and detail
in it's gloss/reflective properties. I appreciate everyones guidance getting me this far!)
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by T.Hadley on July 29th 2010, 10:41 pm

I spent about $250.00 on our 50.00 paint job, its still many times cheaper then a 2 stage job.

A buddy of mine who is a painter for a living, told me the materials alone would be about $850.00

Penetrol is only about $10.00 @ Home Depot

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 30th 2010, 9:17 am

Yeah I've been keeping the receipts for this project but haven't added it up yet. I'll probably post a final total when I'm done. Seems that nothing anyone has at Home Depot in the US is available here in Canada. I imagine they might carry a similar product but I have a hard time trusting unknown products. I think I'm just going to keep it simple as I like how the paint goes on now and I don't really want to spend the extra dollars at this stage if I don't have too. Perhaps I'll change my mind as I start wet sanding out orange peel Crying or Very sad

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by 63Falconconvert on July 30th 2010, 10:56 am

Im in upstate NY and none of the local Home Dumpsters carry Penetrol. NY state has crazy regulations on oil base paint and related products.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on July 30th 2010, 4:08 pm

2nd coat... I'm far more impressed now than the first try.


(looking good... I'm not sure when I'll be able to wet sand.. maybe not till either Sunday night or Monday sometime Crying or Very sad )
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on August 5th 2010, 7:24 pm

Finally got out there to wet sand and roll the 3rd coat. I'm not sure if I went too deep or not but the coverage looks a lot like the 2nd coat. I found that's what was required to get the whole thing to a dull finish. I'm hoping that as it gets smoother and smoother it won't remove as much paint.


(3rd coat.. good clarity but I think I might have shaved a bit too much off)
Ian


Last edited by Ian67 on August 9th 2010, 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on August 5th 2010, 10:44 pm

Don't worry about shine yet, worry about smooth and clean. Your coverage looks good so far.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Squire Cobra Jet on August 7th 2010, 4:13 am

I agree with Jim, better to keep it smooth from the start and it will be shining much better when done.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on August 9th 2010, 6:58 pm

4th coat rolled on today. It's a good thing I'm not in a hurry because I'm a slow worker. I'm very very happy with the results so far. I've got a plan in my mind to complete the lid with the following steps:

Prime, Sand wet 400, Coat 1&2, Sand wet 400, Coat 3&4, Sand wet 400, Coat 5&6, Sand wet 800, Coat 7&8, Sand wet 1000, Coat 9&10, Sand wet 1500/2000 Buff/polish/wax

Seems like a lot of people go to around 8 coats but I think because I'm at bare metal in some spots and because I'm using black I would like it to be a little thicker. Does the above plan look sane? Is jumping from 400 grit to 800 going to be ok? Or would I be best to get some 600? Just trying to save money on paper as I have a ton of 400 and 800. Perhaps I would be better to do 800 grit next instead of 400? Lol I think I've got myself confused now.


(Coat 4 - About 80% coverage and it seems to be really drying smooth)

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by retired plumber on August 9th 2010, 7:48 pm

What ever it takes to make the rough stuff go away.LOL The smother the grit, the more work needed but that has to be balanced against the rougher grits leaving scratches in the paint but leveling faster. I would try the 800 if that is what you have. Keep it clean with water so it cuts good. Change paper often because it does get dull, it may still feel good but compare it to fresh after you do about half a door and you will feel a difference. If you can feel the difference then change.
hope this helps.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on August 9th 2010, 8:20 pm

I agree with Mike. Also, your plan otherwise sounds good.

Looking good so far!

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Squire Cobra Jet on August 9th 2010, 11:30 pm

Looks good.
I ended up going 12 coats of black on a'73 Ranchero that started out black and 14 coats of Black on a '72 Ranchero that started out white.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on August 9th 2010, 11:48 pm

Actually I originally planned to do 12 coats but didn't know if that was excessive or not. depending on how thick it gets I may end up with 12, especially if I end up getting down to bare metal in lots of spots.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Squire Cobra Jet on August 11th 2010, 2:41 am

It really just depends on how much new paint is still on the car after all the sanding when you reach a point that you feel you have full coverage and a smooth surface. I reached that point in as little as 8 coats and as many as 16 coats. Just assess how well the coverage is after every two coats. My guess based on doing two black cars is it will be somewhere between 10 on the low side and 14 on the high side.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Milky on August 11th 2010, 8:43 am

does using penetrol reduce the number of coats?

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

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