67 Camaro - Black on Black

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on August 11th 2010, 6:15 pm

No, it dries a bit faster and smoother, usually!

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on August 12th 2010, 12:54 am

I'm trying to reduce my constant thread bumping by making this a 2 coat update. I've wet sanded with 400grit and then rolled coats 5 & 6. As of right now I think 10 coats will be enough but I'm not prepared to skimp over a couple of coats. I will glady roll 12 or 14 to give it some extra thickness. 800grit is up to bat.


(5th coat on the left and 6th coat on the right. They look very similar but the coverage is better
on the 6th coat. Don't mind the difference in contrast, I'm not a photographer)

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on August 12th 2010, 8:40 am

Looking good! cheers

Take my advice, when you think you have enough paint, add two more coats. When you use the cutting pad and rubbing compound to smooth it all out, you will remove a layer or more to get out the microfine scratches. Then polishing will bring out the shine!

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on August 12th 2010, 10:17 am

Yeah I look forward to the final polishing stages. I've seen a lot of people who use the Maguires line and seem to like it. Can anyone here recommend the specific products they've used for cutting pads, rubbing compound, bonnets and wax? I've seen attachments for grinders and orbital sanders for the polishing bonnets and I would like to go that route to save buying another tool. I also already have some Maguires gold class wax and am hoping that will be good enough too. I'm going to have to research this a lot more before I put the cutting pad to the paint. More updates to come after coats 7&8.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on August 12th 2010, 10:33 am

Take a look at this part of my project. It shows how I did it, and what I used, on the cheap mostly!

http://rolledon.forummotion.com/projects-f2/20-years-in-a-barn-then-a-roller-paint-job-opel-gt-t531.htm

I'll post up exact parts and numbers in the next couple days for those wanting to copy.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on August 14th 2010, 6:46 pm

Hey Jim, I would be interested in those part numbers! I checked into it and it seems that my grinder and orbital sander will be too too fast (RPMs) to polish with. I guess I'm going to buy or borrow a polisher.

I sanded with 800grit and then rolled coats 7-8. The coverage is awsome and I'm happy except there are a bunch of small pitts that won't cover. They weren't there before coat 7. If I didn't clean it myself I would suspect that it wasn't cleaned good enough. So I'll have to check it out after coat 8 is dry. I will be disappointed if I have to sand coats 7-8 off but it's a possibility. Arg...


(7th coat on the left and 8th coat on the right. The coverage is great but there are several "pitts" in random spots all over the lid)
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on August 14th 2010, 8:22 pm

It doesn't look too bad. I always clean with denatured alcohol before rolling just to make sure.

I'll round up the part numbers tonight, but here is the buffer I use: http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-variable-speed-polisher-sander-92623.html



It has a velcro pad holder that holds the polishing foam. I use the one that comes with it for the initial rubbing compound. I used Turtle wax rubbing compound.

This is the polishing pad: http://www.harborfreight.com/9-inch-foam-buffing-pad-91235.html



Use this one to apply the MeGuires Ultra compound.

The buffing pad is identical, except it is black. I don't see it on the site, but it is at the store. I just bought another one on Thursday.

Hope that helped.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on August 15th 2010, 7:05 pm

I've been trying to keep my updates less frequent... but I've made some progress and I needed to share. I tore the lid up today with 800grit and probably went thru 4 layers of paint. I was determined to get rid of the little pitts and craters in the last couple coats. It took a while but I got it done. The whole lid is smoother and looks phenomenal. Now as long as I can keep it like this and apply the next few coats it should look awesome. I'll probably hit a few pawn shops tomorrow to look for a good but cheap polisher. Thanks for the great product information Jim!


(My reflection after the 8th coat with all the pitting)


(My reflection after the sanding and 9th coat ... I'm happy!)

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on August 15th 2010, 8:17 pm

Looks great!

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Squire Cobra Jet on August 15th 2010, 9:34 pm

That's looking real good!
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by mick on August 15th 2010, 11:05 pm

very nice
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on August 16th 2010, 12:48 am

Thanks! I'm quite proud so far but I can notice a few flaws but it's my lacking bodywork skills. I know I'll do a much better job on the rest of the car now that I've gone through this. I've noticed that this process is taking me forever. I've been waiting almost a full 24 hours between coats... is that average? Do you guys do re-coats while it's tacky or do you wait a day too? Obviously you would want it to be totally dry before you sand but I could save a lot of time if I did 2 coats a day instead of one.

I'll be safe and wait until tomorrow morning before coat 10.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Squire Cobra Jet on August 16th 2010, 4:20 am

It all depends on the weather. Where I am at it is very common to have single digit humidity and add warm temperature to that and this paint is dry within an hour when using a 50/50 mix. I have done as many as four coats in a day and sanding in between every two coats when the weather is right and I have a full day to do it. Other times it has taken at least twelve hours for a coat to dry.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on August 16th 2010, 6:23 am

Okay well thats great information. I have been waiting 24 hours just to be on the safe side when with the 87 degree heat and 73% humidity I'm sure the paint is dry before even half that much time. I have been keeping a firm 50/50 mix and I would love to get even 2 coats in a day. I think I'll do one real early tomorrow and then sand and do another tomorrow evening. If I can find a polisher tomorrow I may even be able to get it done this week. Wow.. what a breakthrough! What a Face
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by 63Falconconvert on August 16th 2010, 10:03 am

Looks great so far. You did the right think by getting rid of the pits. You will be much happier with the finished product.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on September 2nd 2010, 2:30 pm

Well I got my Meguiar's foam polishing and finishing pad in the mail yesterday so I went at it today. I sanded the lid with 2000 grit and it looked really good. I applied a decent amount of Meguiar's Ultimate Compound to the pad and rubbed it onto only HALF the lid first. I then used a low setting to start (never used the polisher before) and made several (2 minutes worth) passes over the lid and then wiped away the polish to see what I'd done... It looked very cloudy and very dull but it did have some reflective qualities. So I figured that I just hadn't gone long enough. So I did it again for another 2 minutes with more UC of course. Checked again, still dull and crappy. I then figured that maybe the machine was too low so I turned it up to speed 3 (out of a possible 5) and tried again for another 2 minutes or so.... it is consistent... consistently dull and hazy. It looked a 100 times better before I sanded. So I tried again on speed 2 for another 2 minutes and checked only to find that it's still dull and hazy looking. You can see yourself in it and the reflection clarity is decent but you have to really focus through the haze do see it. I just don't know what do say.

I have used way more UC than I should have needed to in that area. I figure that with anywhere from 6-10 minutes of time on only half the lid I should be done or at least made some decent progress. I figure that my problem could be one of the following:

- Didn't wait long enough since 14th coat of paint (12 days ago)
- I'm using too much polish (is that even possible?)
- My machine is to weak or I haven't turned it up high enough
- I'm impatient and I just need to keep going at it
- My microfiber cloths are garbage and aren't wiping the product away properly.

Anyone have any ideas? Obviously it could be any number of things but I just don't want to push through and then end up at bare metal or primer. Should I try a spot by hand and see what that does? How long would you say it should take to do half a trunk lid with a polisher?

Thanks for any help you can provide!


(14th coat - Good shot of the paint before final sand and polish)


(14th coat - My reflection standing under the garage door. Needs polish but otherwise it looks decent)


(After 2000grit sanding and polishing for 6-8 minutes. It only looks streaked AFTER I wipe it off with the microfiber)


(The consistant cloudyness post polish. Have I burned it? Am I impatient? Is it my shitty cloths? Uggg help me)
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on September 2nd 2010, 3:02 pm

A quick update... I tried a small spot using an old waxing sponge and I rubbed in a circular motion for about 2 minutes on a 2"x2" spot. Then tried to wipe the remaining polish away and it streaked like hell. I am very confident that at the very least, my clothes are junk and arn't actually wiping the polish residue away but merely smudging it around. I'll have to go buy a couple decent ones instead.

The first few times I polished on the lid I noticed that the polish was still white-ish when I wiped it off... Was I not letting it break down enough before I removed it? I have a feeling that I was using too much polish and not polishing long enough prior to removal...

Any thoughts?

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by 63Falconconvert on September 2nd 2010, 4:12 pm

Looks to me like a combination of too much UC and not enough RPM's on the buffer= not enough heat generated to bring the shine back. After 10 minutes you should see a very clear deep shine. I'm a little surprised that that the shine isn't coming up for you. You might need a more aggressive pad to cut with. I like to use a wool pad for cutting then switch to a foam for finishing.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Squire Cobra Jet on September 2nd 2010, 5:52 pm

It looks to me like too much polish.
I have been applying the UC by hand with a sponge applicator and rubbing it in by hand.
As soon as I apply the polish I start to rub it out and I repeat the process for a total of 5 times in one area before moving onto the next section to get polished. I also follow up with a wipe down of the area I just finished with a clean towel. I only use a small amount of polish in each application.

Try a small section by hand as I described and see if it looks any better.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by JimVonBaden on September 2nd 2010, 6:38 pm

I do not know if black is harder, or different, but I used ONLY the low setting on my cheap HF 7" polisher with HF pads. First I used the rubbing pad that came with the polisher with rubbing compound to get out all the sanding marks, then the polishing pad I got from HF with the Meguires Ultimate, not a lot, then wiped it down and used the HF buffing pad dry. I did all this with the lowest speed.

The results were nothing short of amazing!



From 2000 grit sanding to finished. I actually taped it off to see the difference.



Not sure if I helped or frustrated you, but rest assured a good shine without haze is totally possible!

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on September 2nd 2010, 8:22 pm

Well I'm glad it's not that I've burned through the paint. I'll have to try the buffer at a higher speed with less UC. When you guys are done polishing what is the texture of the polish? Is it dryish and wipe off like a dry wax would or is it greasy? Its been hours since I tried last and the microfiber cloth doesn't wipe it off it just smears it around. Is it supposed to get kinda dry or is it normally greasy when you wipe it off?

I'll go buy some new cloths and try it again tonight. I love the pictures Jim but it does kinda make me want to cry a little.. haha. I just hope I can make it look good.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on September 2nd 2010, 10:27 pm

Well I went out there determined to make progress and I got some. I put my buffer at MAX speed and did not add ANY UC to the pad. I did the same area and the remainder of the lid using no extra UC and it looks much better. However I still find that no matter how long I polish the surface still feels greasy and has a slight streaked look. I can actually smudge the surface with my finger and make it look like a greasy fingerprint. Don't get me wrong, my heart is no longer in my stomach as I'm confident that I can fix it now. It could be that my buffer just doesn't break the polish down good enough or it could be that my cloths just aren't good enough to absorb the greasy polish residue. My pictures look good but if you look you can see how reflections aren't quite as crisp as they could be.



(Phew... it's looking better but still not perfect)


(The finish is obviously better but it still looks rippled and in need of clarity)


(I thought that this close up reflection really showed how unclear the finish was up close)
Any thoughts?

Ian

p.s. I still haven't got any new cloths yet, I'm not quite convinced it's their fault.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Squire Cobra Jet on September 3rd 2010, 1:24 am

It is looking much better. It sounds to me like too much compound and the cloth you are using to wipe up with has gotten over saturated with compound so that it is not cleaning off all the excess polish residue. The air is so dry where I am at that the polish is almost power form by the time I am wiping it off, which is no time at all. The only time I have encountered a greasy spot is when too much compound was applied.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by Ian67 on September 3rd 2010, 12:10 pm

Well I'm going to go out this morning to pickup at least one quality microfiber cloth. I have 10 of these cheap ones and they really don't wipe up the greasy polish at all. And since the whole surface is greasy when I'm done, I wipe and I just get smear marks. It looks better for me to not wipe the surface at all and leave it. However if I leave it, several hours later it dries and the surface turns dull.

I think I'll get the new cloth(s) and just keep going on the highest setting until I get a less greasy film. I would actually be happy with the finish if it would stay as it looks in the above pictures.

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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

Post by rustycarrs on September 3rd 2010, 2:11 pm

You think you could take some pics of your camaro outside or farther away? its hard to see what im looking at, the reason i ask is i have a 67 camaro too and will be doing this soon, thanks.
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Re: 67 Camaro - Black on Black

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